Grinding bad into second

[wilkywoo]

New problem that I would like opinions on.
so 1.8 tc marina based 4 speed suddenly is grinding real bad into 2nd gear at any revs.
all other gears fine.

I haven't had a chance to check gearbox fluid yet but what are the chances on these the level has got low and is causing it?

I did put the new slave in the other day but had done about 20 miles fine on it untill today after driving about 5 miles there and being off for about an hour it started doing it on the way back and got really bad when almost home so started skipping 2nd.

gearbox is slightly wet and oily on outside i just wont get a chance to check level/change oil till next week.

I do hope it's just fluid and not syncro.

[greyV8pete]

New problem that I would like opinions on.
so 1.8 tc marina based 4 speed suddenly is grinding real bad into 2nd gear at any revs.
all other gears fine.

I haven't had a chance to check gearbox fluid yet but what are the chances on these the level has got low and is causing it?

I did put the new slave in the other day but had done about 20 miles fine on it untill today after driving about 5 miles there and being off for about an hour it started doing it on the way back and got really bad when almost home so started skipping 2nd.

gearbox is slightly wet and oily on outside i just wont get a chance to check level/change oil till next week.

I do hope it's just fluid and not syncro.

Just because you replaced the slave doesn’t mean that isn’t still causing the problem. Try bleeding it again as air could still be in the system. Quick easy check to do first.
Is the oil on the outside of the gearbox lube oil or is it hydraulic fluid due to leaking bleed valve, which could also be letting in air? If 2nd synchro is already a bit weak then a not fully disengaging clutch could affect just that gear. Worth rechecking these easy things first before assuming the worst for the 2nd synchro itself.

[A_Hogg]

It's not unknown for the clutch release arm to become dislodged from it's pivot inside the bellhousing - especially so in the attempt to remove the slave cylinder. If that's the case it's engine out as no other way to reinstall arm. Had you driven the vehicle prior to changing slave cylinder? and was it ok then.

[A_Hogg]

Good advice from Pete - the bleed nipple needs to be uppermost or you'll never get the air out. Later Marina /Itals had a nylon hose exiting from the bleed nipple position with the bleed nipple on the end and on a bracket high on the bulkhead to enable the process to be easier and more effective.

[wilkywoo]

OK I've had a stupid thought but I'll answer the questions first.
slave was leaking before so fluid level was going down when driven.
replaced the slave and bled up.

Clutch engagement is right at the top ( before it was more towards the middle of pedal travel)

Right so my overlooking here,
my other post i put about the pedal now stopping about an inch off the floor and maybe shortening the slave rod.

I think maybe the clutch is overthrowing so the pressure plate fingers are pushing on the friction plate and spinning it hence grinding?
The clutch fork now on full pedal touches the bell housing!
It's got to be this?

Tomorrow I will experiment with taking a few mm off the end of the slave rod. I will also change gearbox oil for good measure.

[martinclan56]

The whole clutch operating system on the Marina is a bit marginal in operation.
It wears where the clutch fork engages with the release bearing.
It wears at the pivot point.
Either or both can cause the clutch to malfunction.
If you just shorten the pushrod it may temporarily resolve the problem, but to be honest, you are probably going to have the engine and gearbox out to see what is going on.
I had similar problems. I got quite good at taking the engine out on my own. I did it 3 times in about as many days!

[wilkywoo]

So got to it this morning, shortened a spare slave rod by about 5mm....much better clutch engagement a third down the pedal.

Gearbox fill plig out couldn't find trace of oil witoil alken key so started to top up. Took almost a full liter to start coming back out!!

Took it for a drive and now no grind at all from 1st to 2nd no matter the revs but still won't do from 3rd diwn to second so looks like I have damaged somthing ????

I will give it a better run later in the week but don't hold out much hope.

Also what is strange it has overdrive on the box but not connected and I don't think it ever has been.

[A_Hogg]

My money is on the arm being off the pivot hence why it was touching the bell housing . Shortening the pushrod is just masking the problem in my opinion - it was a determined length for a reason. The only thing that has changed is the length of the pedal arm making the clutch [ and brake] heavier in operation

[A_Hogg]

Just for interest there were two different slave cylinders fitted to Marina models. The early one from '71 -'72 was Lockheed part number 4253- 309 and had a 1 inch bore size with repair kit SSB 622 . The more common one '72 on was Part number 4252-398 with repair kit SSB619 and was 7/8 th inch bore

[wilkywoo]

My money is on the arm being off the pivot hence why it was touching the bell housing . Shortening the pushrod is just masking the problem in my opinion - it was a determined length for a reason. The only thing that has changed is the length of the pedal arm making the clutch [ and brake] heavier in operation

The new slave cylinder held the clutch arm about 2 cm closer to the rear of the bell housing so shortening the arm has just put it back to where the original one was.
Its hard for me to explain.

[wilkywoo]

Just for interest there were two different slave cylinders fitted to Marina models. The early one from '71 -'72 was Lockheed part number 4253- 309 and had a 1 inch bore size with repair kit SSB 622 . The more common one '72 on was Part number 4252-398 with repair kit SSB619 and was 7/8 th inch bore

Yes I may have got them confused. But now shortening the arm the pedal goes to the floor, the bite point is about two thirds up and the clutch arm when fully extended is about a cm away from the bell housing. It now all seems to work as God intended just the grind from 3rd to 2nd which im sure is damage caused by low fluid.

[A_Hogg]

what engine - 1800 'B' series? Also you mentioned the gearbox having overdrive - do you know origin of the gearbox? If Triumph It may work OK but some users experience 'clutch drag' as the input shaft on the box is shorter than the Marina one. The way round this was to install the input /first motion shaft in its entirety from the Marina into the Triumph box. Lots to think about!

[wilkywoo]

what engine - 1800 'B' series? Also you mentioned the gearbox having overdrive - do you know origin of the gearbox? If Triumph It may work OK but some users experience 'clutch drag' as the input shaft on the box is shorter than the Marina one. The way round this was to install the input /first motion shaft in its entirety from the Marina into the Triumph box. Lots to think about!

Yes sorry 1800 b series.
haven't a clue the origin of gearbox but need to get properly under it which will have use of a ramp Thursday.

The clutch drag theory is interesting but its been working perfect until a couple days ago when it was almost impossible to get 2nd or third, now after changing the fluid it's all perfect apart from coming down from 3rd to second it grinds really bad.

[greyV8pete]

Yes sorry 1800 b series.
haven't a clue the origin of gearbox but need to get properly under it which will have use of a ramp Thursday.

The clutch drag theory is interesting but its been working perfect until a couple days ago when it was almost impossible to get 2nd or third, now after changing the fluid it's all perfect apart from coming down from 3rd to second it grinds really bad.

You will have to learn the ancient motoring art of double de-clutching! ????

[MOC Chair]

I owned a Triumph Herald in the late sixties with poor synchromesh on second gear. I used to double de clutch when changing down.