wanting to change berlinetta to touring car

[amalgamated users from prior forum]

Message originally posted by: kevin heath
Hi,

I recently bought a berlinetta and while i love the car, it wizzes around these lanes I want to change it into a more comfortable touring car.
Currently the car has a 1.7 engine with a 4 speed box. The donor car was a mark 3 cortina.

The two main things i wnat to acheive is a smoother/quiter ride and better fuel consuption.

This is my first kit car and I love driving it even thought the weathers not been the best. I am not a mechanic so I pretty much just need to know what's possbile so when I go to a garage I not completely in the dark about a good system

Thanks

Kevin

[muckles.19]

Re: wanting to change berlinetta to touring car

Hi Kevin
Sounds like a tall order transforming the car to JBA Falcon lookalike i recon it would be easier to go the other way turning it into something like a 7 car . Your noise problem is something i think you live with , Lack of sound deadening and a steel body doesn't help , unless its the exhaust noise thats bothering you a standard Cortina two box system will sound like a Cortina but a single sports box lets you think its a Ferrari. Most Pinto engines come in 1.6L and 2.0L both a old technology by modern standards so not a lot you can do about MPG Fords of that era were known to be rather thirsty . A type 9 five speed gearbox will probably help a bit will also help reduce the running noise at speed. I recon the bottom line is a Berlinetta not what you want it will probably be easier to sell and have a look round for something else that fits the bill. Picture is a JBA bigger and more of a tourer same MPG + more expensive . Best regards Mike

[amalgamated users from prior forum]

Re: wanting to change berlinetta to touring car

Message originally posted by: kevin
thanks mike

thanks for the advice. Will a type 9 five spped box just drop into the housing or will there need to be major work done? I think a five speed box will just be more comfortable to drive than a 4 speed one that is in at the moment.
My understanding is that the car used to be used for hill climbing comps and so has plenty of bottom end - great for our country lanes but not so good for cruising. aThe noise is just bearable at 70 on the motorway but if my foot \\\'slips\\\' a little which can happen on occassions it\\\'s pretty deafening at 80+.

kevin

[dogoncrazy]

Re: wanting to change berlinetta to touring car

Is this a 1700 crossflow engine? If so it's perhaps not the best choice for what you want, especially in tuned form.

[amalgamated users from prior forum]

Re: wanting to change berlinetta to touring car

Message originally posted by: kevin heath
Hi Alan

not sure what a crossflow engine is

I know it's got a kent cam because it says so on the engine

One of the reasons why I'm looking at changing the engne and gearbox is because I am tying with the idea of entering the beaujolais run and I'm not too sure if the car in the current configuration will make it there and back.

kevin

[macdonald.dm]

Re: wanting to change berlinetta to touring car

Hi Kevin.

The 'crossflow' engine was fitted to early (up to Mk 2?) Escorts etc, and is 'crossflow' because the gasses flow across the top of the engine, ie: the inlet is on the opposite side to the exhaust - a bit like the Pinto! However, the Pinto (as in the Mk3 Cortina) has an overhead cam, with the cam belt under a cover on the front - quite distictive. The crossflow had a camshaft under the head and used pushrods (I'm pretty sure!) to operate the valves.

The reason we might suspect it's a crossflow is because of the engine size - 1700cc. Pintos are 1600, 2000, and more rarely, 1800cc.

As you suspect, you want to raise the gearing probably a fair bit. What is you current mph per 1k revs? (Bare in mind your speedo might not be accurate...)

It might even be that the rear axle was changed if the car was built for hill-climbing, but I don't know what sort of ratios are available here.

If you have a Pinto engine (a re-bored 1600?), then a 5-speed type 9 box should drop in with minimal work. What size tyres do you have? Going for high profile tyres (say, 80's) will increase ground clearance, give a softer ride, and increase drive ratio, with only a minimal (if any) reduction in roadholding.

Also bare in mind that Marlins have the aerodynamics of a brick, with the flatish rad and screen and 'parachute' wings. If you drive fast, you'll get lousy fuel consumption.

As for noise, what is the over-riding sound at 80mph (apart from you laughing...)? It's likely to be wind noise and exhaust note. What type of exhaust system do you have, and do you have a lined hardtop?

[amalgamated users from prior forum]

Re: wanting to change berlinetta to touring car

Message originally posted by: Sue Roedel (MOC Editor)
Check how close the exhaust is to the body work. Mine is much louder since I had some welding done and they tightened up the brackets. It's the same problem. The resonance is deafening!

[gouldsborough7]

Re: wanting to change berlinetta to touring car

As I was crashing over St Albans rubbish road recently, with all sort of complaining noises from the underneath of my Berli, I was wondering whether there was any benefit in fitting a 'softer' grade of springing. Bearing in mind the car is lighter than the Ford donor, there must be some improvements to be had in this direction. The downside might be a certain amount of body-roll on corners.

Has anyone experimented with different spring rates?
Cheers
Mike

[macdonald.dm]

Re: wanting to change berlinetta to touring car

What size tyres do you run, Mike? They can make a big difference.

[gouldsborough7]

Re: wanting to change berlinetta to touring car

Hi Donnie
Thought I had replied to your note yesterday, but this morning it had disappeared!

The tyres are the big boots: 205 x 14, which I inflate to 20 psi on all 4 wheels. Don't know whether I can reduce these a little. The hubs themselves are I suspect from a Sierra 4x4 or similar - see pic.
Cheers
Mike

[macdonald.dm]

Re: wanting to change berlinetta to touring car

Hi Mike.

14" diameter? That's unusual.

205 is also pretty wide. What profile ratio are they - that's the bit that'll make most difference to comfort? (Ie: on the tyre side-wall it should read 205/xx 14 - what's the xx?!)

If your wheels are really 14", I suspect going for high profile & narrower tyres on 15" wheels will make a noticeable difference. Ground clearance will also increase significantly!

Take care on wet roads with 205 tyres - a light car like the Marlin on wide tyres like these can find aquaplaning a fairly easy outcome...

[gouldsborough7]

Re: wanting to change berlinetta to touring car

Sorry Donnie
Mixture of brain-failure and typo error. Just read the numbers off the sidewall: 205/60 x 15 90H.

I don't plan to change the wheels/tyres whatever, because the 4 on the road have only done 6,000 miles, and the spare is brand spanking new.

Thought I might try experimenting with the tyre pressures, say 16 or 18 psi all around (especially without when a passenger). I know my old Robin Hood was quite happy on these lower numbers (with smaller tyres and lighter weight), and going to 20 psi (as currently on my Berli) did make roads appear a bit bumpier.

Cheers
Mike

[amalgamated users from prior forum]

Re: wanting to change berlinetta to touring car

Message originally posted by: Stephen
When I upgraded my Berlinetta from a 1600 pinto 4 speed to a later 1600 with 5 speed there were two modifications that I remember doing and 3rd which I have yet still to do!
The propshaft was unsuitable so had to have a new custom one made to suit the 5 speed. Note this only applies in the case of a 1600 4 speed to 5 speed upgrade, if engine was a 2000cc pinto with 4 to 5 speed exchange then the existing propshaft is the same and needs not to be changed.
2nd mod was that the gearbox brace/cross member had to have a section in the middle cutaway for clearance and then re-enforced. I understand this mod need only be carried out on certain builds as later ones catered for the 5 speed arrangement without a mod.
3rd mod is that the speedo cable no longer fits into place and required a 90deg takeoff adaptor, never got around to doing this.
I do not recall anything else major without digging in my manuals.

[GaryW]

Re: wanting to change berlinetta to touring car

Interesting to hear about the 4 to 5 speed change for a 1600. That is next on my list and so far everything I've read said there was no change to the prop shaft. Perhaps most people have the 2000cc. Where did you get the custom prop shaft made and can you give me an approximate cost please?

[amalgamated users from prior forum]

Re: wanting to change berlinetta to touring car

Message originally posted by: Stephen
Yep, it came as a surprise to me as well when I did it, and also came to same conclusion as you - all the cases I read before in the club pitstops and from talking to people must have been detailing upgrades on 2000cc pintos as they had no mention of the prop mod.

I have consulted my notes and I wrote the following:
"Reason for new propshaft is that the splined final drive of a 1.5 5 speed gearbox is larger than the 1.6 pinto speed. It is the same size as the 2.0litre 4 speed splined end."

The propshaft was purchased from South Wales Propshafts
(www.southwalesprops.co.uk) in Newport. I took in the old prop hoping they might be able to swap out the UJ end yoke with a 2000cc end yoke that I had obtained (from a transit van). But for the cost it was more effective for a whole new prop with circ-clipped home replicable UJ's unlike the pressed Ford ones. Took about 3 days - job done. They also tested the balance of the old prop which my Dad had bought from Marlin for the build, supposedly it was extremely unbalanced! New one cost approx £145 plus VAT. This was back in 2003.

My Berlinetta is a Cortina build but when I came to do this job I sourced the 5speed 'N' TYPE BOX plus an unleaded EMAX 1600 pinto from a 1985 Sierra LX (F reg). Would have gone 2.0ltr but could not find any at that time.