Shake, Rattle but no Roll

[gouldsborough7]

Various members (including myself) have posted questions & answers on the Forum about the way Berlis do not behave like ordinary cars. They are brilliant at going around bends, corners & roundabouts, but in straight lines on naff roads, the steering wheel can get highly excited, and things can feel & sound like they are about to fall off!

The chassis design may not be the world's best, yet it is made out of very substantial chunks of metal. My old Robin Hood had no chassis and was just like a stainless steel biscuit tin in design with rubbish sliding-pillar front suspension, yet I did not get the scuttle and steering shake that I get from my Berli.

Having renewed engine & gearbox mountings, and checked clearances etc, I still get some banging from underneath. With this and the shakes above, I wondered whether the front & rear suspension arms etc all need to be up-graded in some way? Possibly the shock-absorbers need to be of better grade?

Unfortunately, our highways are degenerating to 3rd World standards, and the original Cortina suspension design was probably not expected to cope as well as the modern family saloon. However, there must be a few things that can be done, without re-designing the car and spending a fortune in the process.

Anybody established any strong ideas/solutions to this? Can we build up a check-list of things that can be readily sorted out? If it means buying fancy nylon bushes or whatever, it would help to know the sources, and what it takes to fit them.

Cheers
Mike

[macdonald.dm]

Re: Shake, Rattle but no Roll

Hi Mike.

Whilst being too simplistic, I think it's mainly down to the fact that the Berli is a LOT lighter than the Cortina it was based on. This has the effect of making the suspension feel a lot firmer than it was on the original car.

This is certainly not helped by the Cortina front springs having to be cut down to make them a suitable height for the Berli, as this just increases it's stiffness further. (I'm guessing that the springs need to be cut down so that the Berli sits at the same 'suspension height' as it did with the heavier Cortina, so that the steering arms are horizontal with no additional load?)

Add to this the fact that most people also fit lower-profile tyres to their cars, whereas the Cortina had profiles so high they often didn't even feature as a ratio!

It all adds up to a tooth-rattling ride.

I think softer springs would help, but I don't know who easy they are to get. High-profile tyres certainly seem to give an immediate benefit (Sue seems to have noticed an improvement with her 80's), as well as it also increasing ground clearance - not a bad thing - and filling these big arches a bit more!

I'm quite happy with the way mine behaves on smoothish roads, but as soon as I hit anything approaching a poorly surfaced road - of which there are more and more - it, and I, start to suffer. It also makes the car quite twitchy on bends with ruts & ridges, and could easily knock it off-line if going too fast (embarrassingly, my Zafira would easily out-run my Berli in these conditons).

It's a good question Mike - does anyone out there actually have a comfortable Berli?!

[gouldsborough7]

Re: Shake, Rattle but no Roll

Hi Donnie
Yes, I agree with all your thoughts. My tyres are 205x15 60%, and are heavy beasts! Even though I run them at 18psi, (don't want to go lower) with the original Cortina mechanicals, these large wheels are probably stressing the suspension components far more than expected by Ford.

Regarding shock-absorbers, although mine don't appear to be defective i.e. the car does not continue to bounce up & down after hitting a bump, I wonder if SPAX shockers or similar might transform things, albeit at great cost.

My Berli is going in for an MOT in a week or so, so I will get the mechanic to have a close look underneath while it is up on the hoist. Any adverse points, I will post onto the Forum.

Cheers
Mike

[macdonald.dm]

Re: Shake, Rattle but no Roll

Hi Mike.

My gut reaction is that the shocks will make minimal difference, at least compared to spring rate.

Having said that, I've just replaced my rear shocks (one had a slight weep) and it has 'tidied' up the rear movement a noticeable amount - still pretty firm, of course! I guess the old weak shocks allowed the suspension to travel more than it should - emphasising the shake, rattle and roll - but it certainly didn't make it feel more soft and comfy!

However, when you consider the differences in weight between the Berli (750kgs?) and the Cortina (1200kgs - a guess), coupled with the fact that the front springs are made even MORE stiff by cutting them down, it's not surprising that the front suspension is rock-hard.

There's another thread on here regarding making the Berli a more comfy long-distance tourer, and I think there was some mention of alternative springs.

Bet they ain't cheap...

[macdonald.dm]

Re: Shake, Rattle but no Roll

Hi Mike.

It was actually the: "Caster / Camber set up" thread I was referring to.

[danny_nelson]

Re: Shake, Rattle but no Roll

Mike I can understand the steering column shake if your front suspension is not as it should be, but scuttle shake is something that Marlins should not have. If it really is then I suggest that there is something seriously wrong and you need to check this car very thoroughly or have it checked by someone who knows their way round a Berlinetta. Are you sure you are having scuttle shake?

[gouldsborough7]

Re: Shake, Rattle but no Roll

Danny, I guess I was being a bit casual referring to scuttle shake. I think most of my problems are vibration up through the steering when hitting sunken manholes or potholes, plus clonking underneath which I suspect is still related to the gearbox hitting nearby metal when the whole car is shaken by giant defects in the road surfaces. Regarding the latter, I have had my local friendly garage check out the clearances, with car 6 feet in the air on a hoist. Some adjustment with shims did help, but that problem is still persisting albeit to a lesser extent. Perhaps chunks of rubber glued somewhere might help, or else fit additional rubber mountings. I plan to get the mechanic to do another check during my MOT on Friday, and will provide feedback.
Cheers
Mike

[sgbpropserv]

Re: Shake, Rattle but no Roll

Dont have any shakes and rattles with my berli but it runs custom made front springs sourced as a favour from a friend in the bike racing fraternity, standard shocks and 205 x 75 x 15 tyres at 18psi. having given the berli's spec to my friend he supplied his contact with these resulting in what i am told is a softer spring. believe the specialsit supplier to be in sheffield but have no further details and friend has emigrated to NZ. as a similar point of interest i had a jba that displayed similar characteristics and i fabricated a bracket that fitted to the chassis carrying a bearing mounted in a rubber bush through which the steering column passed, problem cured after exausting all other possibilities. ps, have found fully polly bushed front end increase vibes in steering.

[gouldsborough7]

Re: Shake, Rattle but no Roll

FOLLOW-UP BY MIKE
Think I sorted out the knocking noises underneath, at least for the time being! When the car went for its MOT (passed no probs), the proprietor & I got under the car while it was 6 feet in the air on the hoist. He grabbed hold of the propshaft, gave it a good shaking up & down, & found the 'noise' = where the rear of the gearbox goes over a small cross-member. The new Ford rubber mounting still allowed the gearbox to dance up & down! He suggested I source a nylon mounting, which did not jump off any web-sites I searched on later.

Solution, possibly temporary, was to jack up the gearbox, wedge some dense sponge-like stuff (the type used in noise insulation) between the box and the cross-member, and then remove the jack. Have only done 10 miles with this fix, but so far the noise has gone, with no other side-effects. If the noise recurs I will know why, and will sort out a better solution.

Still need to resolve the front suspension-shake while going over bumpy roads though - move to a county with better roads?
Cheers
Mike

[paulie_nightjar]

Re: Shake, Rattle but no Roll

Hi all.
I'm very interested in the idea of reducing wheel shake by fitting higher profile tyres. I've got some big heavy fat beasts on mine (205x15x 6J) Not knowing much about wheels and tyres, do I need to get new wheels to fit 80% tyres and can you get such tyres from your local Kwikfit? Or is it a special order job? What about lighter wheels? (I'm using pressed steel rather than alloys) Any advice most welcome. I'm also looking (with 2 others) for a new hood and possibly frame as well. Anyone with good condition spares looking for a new home?
Thanks,
Paul

[dogoncrazy]

Re: Shake, Rattle but no Roll

Just been going through some old 'Pitstops' -92/93 and there were a couple of mentions of front springs for Berli's. Both members used Pilgrim FT items coded orange/white and together with standard ie non adjustable Monroe shocks said ride had improved tremendously.Just thought I'd share those comments.

[Dane_Rescueman]

Re: Shake, Rattle but no Roll

Hi Guys,
As I posted somewhere else on the forum, Burton sell 3 different Cortina springs in standard, -1 inch and -2 inches length. Has anyone any experience of these?

[P_Seabrook_Harris]

Re: Shake, Rattle but no Roll

Going back to the earlier Marina based front dampers, I just got a pair of rear Herald shockers for £37 delivered via mevspares (found em on Ebay) They also havea lot of Triumph stuff but most of the Morris gear seems to be Ital flavour