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  • SVA fail - but its not too bad

    It failed. However it's not that bad:

    1) Seat back strength. As the seats have harness holes in an impact all of the force gets taken up by the back mounts and the seat back. I didn't have evidence that the seat conformed to the M1 Directive 76/115/EEC. I spoke to Cobra after the test and they that they've never had an issue with Roadster 7's and SVA, but the also don't have any documentation to send me, they will call me back on Monday and see if the can sort something out.

    Two solutions, get the paper work or weld in a bar higher than the harness holes between either side of the roll bar.

    2) Mirrors. Due to the seat backs getting in the way (more than 10%) of the rear view the passenger side mirror becomes a requirement. You couldn't see enough in that mirror. It requires convex glass. (and not just double sided taped on)

    Two solutions, find some glass that goes in the existing mirror or replace the mirror.

    3) Sheet metal edges on bonnet all round need rubber on them. Would have done this there an then but I need to go back anyway so no point in rushing it.

    4) Glass fibre edge under bonnet requires a radius of 1.5mm. Ditto above

    5) Steering geometry - car didn't self centre from full lock my fault for checking the properly. Need to get Camber, caster and toe in setting from Mark or Simon (not that I was able to get a conclusive answer before)

    6) Heat shield brake master cylinder and servo - I put an ali sheet on there but consensus was that it would soak up more heat. Fix cover in heat shield, not problem got a box of that in the garage.

    7) Brake valve compensator - I used zip ties to hole this up, needs a proper bracket.

    8) Design weights were wrong on the form. Car is heaver at the back that expected - probably due to the exhaust. So need a letter from Marlin with new weights. The rear needed to be at least 563 (and the gross put up to cover this)

    The collapsible of the steering column was a very close issue but they did pass it in the end after a lunch time chat with everyone else there and a study of the manual.

    That was it so all in all not too bad, nothing that can't be fixed. Mark the tester at Southampton was nice a guy and very honest about everything all these issue are very fair points and I feel better about driving the car with them sorted.

    Interior projections all passed, exterior projections all passed (had to sand down the rear reflectors a bit more, but that was it!)

    Emission were still OK, exhaust was so close you wouldn't believe. One pipe was 98.9 and the other was 100.7 with an average of 99.8db!

    Anyone know the camber, caster and toe settings for a Sportster so it auto centres properly? I wasn't able to get through to the tech support line today.

    Thanks, Patrick
    www.msportster.co.uk
    BMW E30 Sportster 2005 - M20B28 - Build Log and Updates http://www.msportster.co.uk/
    http://www.modelog.co.uk/
    http://www.mustang67.co.uk/

  • #2
    Re: SVA fail - but its not too bad

    Bad Luck Patrick, but, as you say, nothing that can't be fixed with ease and you know now it will pass second time! Wish I could help with the caster question but I took my Berli to the excellent Elite tyres on the A13 in Rainham and they sorted it all out for me with compooters and everyfink.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: SVA fail - but its not too bad

      Most modern cars the various steering geometry angles are set so it is not easy to get hold of the information. I know that Millie’s Sierra based geometry is all to cock and I should do something to set it up correctly but it generally does not affect the driving experience most of which only requires the steering to move a few degrees. That said the tyres do squeal quite a bit in multi-storey car parks. Not a bad thing as it scatters pedestrians without actually endangering them.

      My somewhat older Haynes manual for the Granada does give dimensions and I have included those for you to look at. I give them all as it shows there is quite a range. Depending on the options, and given a tolerance of 1 degree, the castor angle can be from slightly less than a degree to almost 4 degrees. One source gives angles of 3.5 to 4.5 degrees for BMWs.

      I guess that given a short journey to the test centre and the fact that you are a fit young man and not a weedy little old lady in a Granada a castor angle of 4 degrees or more would be good enough. It might make it a little stiff when parking but should be fine on the open road. It should guarantee self-centring.

      Measurement is another problem. The only way I found to do it is using a steel tape measure. This I attach to something near the rear wheels. The Sierra has a small hole in the axle and I put a pin into it and sticky tape the tape measure to it. Then I measure as best I can to the top and bottom of the kingpins. I know the Sierra has ball joints but they form a virtual kingpin. Given that the nuts of the ball joint are about 150mm apart 4 degrees will give a difference of about 10 mm. Roughly 2.5 mm per degree. So to be within +/- 1 degree you should measure between 7.5 to 12.5 mm. Fairly easy to do with a steel rule. The Camber angle will also affect the caster. For Millie the camber is close to zero.

      I think you can check your set up by eyeball. The top of the wheels should have a pronounced lean towards the back on full lock. Compare it with a production car. Sportier cars tend to have more to compensate for hard cornering. Both locks should look the same (Millie’s doesn’t).

      One other tip I read is to inflate your tyres a little harder than usual. This helps reduce steering resistance.

      Once you are through the test road testing should allow you to experiment to optimise your geometry.

      Good luck wit the retest,
      Paul


      Front wheel alignment

      Toe:
      Setting value . 2 ± 1 mm (0.08 ± 0.04 in) toe-in
      Tolerance in service . 0.5 mm (0.02 in) toe-out to 4.5 mm (0.18 in) toe-in

      Castor :
      SOHC and 2.8 litre models:
      Standard, without ride height control . . . + 1°51’ ± 1°00’
      Standard, with ride height control . . . . + 1°58’ ± 1°00’
      Heavy duty . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . + 1°46’ ± 1°00’
      DOHC carburettor and low series fuel-injection models .
      + 2°27’ ± 1°00’
      DOHC high series models . . . . . . . . . . + 2°26’± 1°00’
      2.4 litre:
      low series models . . . . . . . . . . . . . + 2°17’ ± 1°00’
      high series models . . . . . . . . . . . . + 2°50’ ± 1°00’
      2.9 litre models . . . . . . . . . . . . . + 2°22’ ± 1°00’

      Camber :
      SOHC and 2.8 litre models:
      Standard . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0°23’ ± 1°00’
      Heavy duty . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0°00’ ± 1°00’
      DOHC models . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .-0°17’
      2.4 litre low series models..... . . . . . .-0°27’
      2.4 litre high series and 2.9 litre models .-0°21’

      Tolerance:
      DOHC, 2.4 and 2.9 litre models: 1°00’ to + 0°60’

      Difference between left-hand and right-hand sides:
      SOHC and 2.8 litre models:
      Castor . . 1°00’ maximum
      Camber . . 1°15’ maximum
      DOHC, 2.4 and 2.9 litre models:
      Castor . . 1°00’
      Camber . . 1°15’


      I bet this forum will mangle the special characters I have used so here is a translation:
      + Plus
      - Minus
      ± Plus or Minus
      ° Degree
      ’ Minute

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: SVA fail - but its not too bad

        Thank you very much Paul! I'm going to print your post out and study it in detail!

        I spoke to Marlin today who gave me the following information:

        Camber: -0.5
        Castor: Initially he said you can't change it but then later told me that I should move the washer from the front to the back of the top wishbone in effect moving it backwards.
        Toe: parallel

        The small things are fixed edges, brackets etc.

        I had a friend come round with his TIG welder who welded a bar on for me that I got at Metal Supermarket to hold the belts up at good height for my shoulders. Got to cut bits out of the tub so the belts clear now.

        I found some convex OEM replacement mirror glass that I've bonded to the existing mirrors (had to make a new inside for one as I broke the glass while experimenting!) and put a rubber surround on it.

        Put some photos up here: http://www.msportster.co.uk/detail.asp?cat=20

        Thanks,

        Patrick
        BMW E30 Sportster 2005 - M20B28 - Build Log and Updates http://www.msportster.co.uk/
        http://www.modelog.co.uk/
        http://www.mustang67.co.uk/

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: SVA fail - but its not too bad

          Patrick,

          If your steering is like mine castor can be adjusted by adjusting the bush holders in the top arm. In addition to moving the washers. Photo attached (with luck).

          Did Marlin give you any idea of what the castor angle should be?

          Paul
          Attached Files

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: SVA fail - but its not too bad

            Also:
            The full Steering info and other pages from the Haynes manual can be found here:
            http://faq.ford77.ru/info/manual.htm

            The page you want is: 1245-11.pdf in case you can’t read the Russian nomenclature.
            PC

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: SVA fail - but its not too bad

              Notice the forum didn't mangle your special characters, Paul.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: SVA fail - but its not too bad

                I've booked a re-test next Friday, which will hopefully give the postal server time to deliver Marlin's letter and this weekend to finish up all the changes!
                BMW E30 Sportster 2005 - M20B28 - Build Log and Updates http://www.msportster.co.uk/
                http://www.modelog.co.uk/
                http://www.mustang67.co.uk/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: SVA fail - but its not too bad

                  Sue, I was &F&u&c&king impressed that nothing got mangled, Paul.

                  &F&u&c&king = decidedly

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: SVA fail - but its not too bad

                    Ok I'm officially an idiot. After spending many ours buggering about with a camber/caster gauge make lots of adjustments and getting nowhere. Also measured up my Coupe as a reference. The front wheels have always looked a bit off to me. Turns out I was right. The wish bones are correct left and right, but they 180 degrees up the wrong was. DOH!!! Flipped the wishbone over, now the car auto centres no problem at all!
                    Note to all builders - make sure the more curvy part of the wish bone is at the front as in these pictures! Now in this situation a build manual would have been useful, unfortunately with a Marlin you don't get that!

                    http://www.msportster.co.uk/data/sva031.jpg
                    http://www.msportster.co.uk/data/sva032.jpg
                    http://www.msportster.co.uk/data/sva033.jpg

                    More SVA solution pics here: http://www.msportster.co.uk/detail.asp?cat=20&offset=24
                    BMW E30 Sportster 2005 - M20B28 - Build Log and Updates http://www.msportster.co.uk/
                    http://www.modelog.co.uk/
                    http://www.mustang67.co.uk/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: SVA fail - but its not too bad

                      Hi Patrick.

                      Good luck - it sounds as though you are getting there!

                      Interestingly, in the latest changiNGear mag (NG owners' club mag, of which I am also a member), Findhorn Cars - the current owner of NG - had an article regarding SVAing their cars. It concluded with "The different test stations have different standards. We would not touch the Southampton station with a barge pole, but the Yeading station is reasonable."

                      Something to bear in mind if they're still stubborn after your next visit!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: SVA fail - but its not too bad

                        Thanks Donnie, I did know that Southampton was more difficult to get through, but I'm only 20 miles away from there so it made sense.

                        I'm happy that it’s tested to a very high standard, if he'd let some of the things through that I've fixed it really could have been potentially dangerous on the road.

                        The edges under the bonnet were a bit unnecessary picky as they are not even on the outside of the car!

                        Not sure you can switch test stations after you’ve applied and tested at one; I doubt it will have to come to that (I hope!).
                        BMW E30 Sportster 2005 - M20B28 - Build Log and Updates http://www.msportster.co.uk/
                        http://www.modelog.co.uk/
                        http://www.mustang67.co.uk/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: SVA fail - but its not too bad

                          Good attitude, Patrick!

                          It's nice to know that the testers will give it a good going over - no problem with that. If they start picking on totally unreasonable points tho', that's a different matter!
                          The Findhorn guy came across as completely cheesed-off with them!

                          Mind you, they've given you a list to sort, so you know exactly what you're dealing with now. Good luck - tho' you won't need it!

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