Better brakes- guaranteed!

[Mike]

Over on Madaboutkitcars, a number of us have been investigating a Dual 7" servo, with a view to improving (reducing) the very heavy pedal pressure.
After testing in his Sportster, Jason Cundall has reported there is a huge improvement in the brake pedal feel. Quote "there is no longer the need to "Pray and Press harder" in an emergency"

see here fore more details:
http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3149

As you will gather we are trying to gather enough committed orders to persuade the UK importer of these servos to make an out-of-season batch order to meet our requirements.

If you are interested, please make contact via this forum, or through the madabout site above.

If you know of any current Sportster owners who may be interested, please relay this opportunity on to them.

Many thanks
Mike

[ian papworth]

Re: Better brakes- guaranteed!

Ian(Warks)
Count me in for the brake servo upgrade as the brakes have never performed at a satisfactory level. thanks for all your development work guys.

Ian BMW Sportster (sorn for winter upgrades)

[greatoldone]

Ian please confirm that you want the full kit in plated / mild steel - we're looking to put an order in with the American manufacturer, and want concrete numbers.

Ta

Jason

[ian papworth]

Hi Jason, Yes, the full kit would be the way I upgrade. I did not do the servo installation on my car , so it will be a good learning experience .

Ian

[RobA]

Re: Better brakes- guaranteed!

Hi Mike,

Been a beautiful day today and decided to go out for a run in the Sportster around Herefordshire by-roads this evening, just returned home 11.30. First time to use the new double servo assisted brakes at speed - and they are fantastic. Such a huge improvement compared to the old brakes. Worth every penny and would highly recommend to anyone considering this system.

Many thanks again.

Rob

[iank]

Re: Better brakes- guaranteed!

Hi Mike,
I have followed the progress of the upgrade kit on "Madabout". Very impressed with the kit, installation and the feedback.

Please put me down for the full kit: Servo in plated/mild steel, adapter plate and long Clevis pin,etc.

Many thanks

Regards
Ian

[Mike]

Re: Better brakes- guaranteed!

Hi Ian

Sorry, the original batch of servos and adaptor plates I organised have all now been spoken for and supplied. However, if we can get enough people together to order a second batch, I don't mind arranging it all again. It will require a minimum of 6 servos - all the same, from MBM, unless we can obtain them individually from Duksville UK (though they appear to still be out of stock......). The adaptor plates will be a little more expensive as there is a £30 set up charge, but that'll add only a fiver to an order for six.
You are the second person to express an interest, and I am sure there must be other Sporster owners, and indeed Hunter owners who, if they knew what an improvement it would make, would like to join the happy band.

Hopefully, we may be able to flush a few more out via the next Pitstop, or from Stoneleigh?

Is anyone else thinking they might like significantly better brakes in their Sporster, or Hunter, ready to make the leap now that it has been proven beyond doubt to be, and I quote the most often used phrases, "a transformation" and "a revelation" to the performance and safety of any Marlin fitted with the original Metro servo?

Spread the word, and I'll gladly organise it.
Mike

Hi Mike,
I have followed the progress of the upgrade kit on "Madabout". Very impressed with the kit, installation and the feedback.

Please put me down for the full kit: Servo in plated/mild steel, adapter plate and long Clevis pin,etc.

Many thanks

Regards
Ian

[RobA]

Re: Better brakes- guaranteed!

My Blue Sportster will be at Stoneleigh if anyone wants to have a look.

Regards.

Rob

[iank]

Re: Better brakes- guaranteed!

Hi Mike,
Fully understand. If we can get enough Marlin owners together to meet the minimum order and you would still be prepared to order a batch, I would still like to be included.
I will gladly spread the word as from the feedback in the forums the cars braking efficency is transformed.
Regards
Ian

[Mike]

Dual 7" Servo : Better Brakes - guaranteed!

Hi Mike (mike&jeansy.org)

Thank you for your text message expressing an interest in our Dual servo project, unfortunately the email address you provided does not work. So here is a copy of my draft answer I couldn't send!



As the project has progressed, I have to say, I keep on learning more and more, so yes I can pass on quite a bit of information.


Essentially the Dual 7" servo will be of interest to any owner who has either the Metro servo, or the older Cortina 7" servo fitted to their Marlin. It is unlikely to offer any benefit to cars where the standard Sierra servo was fitted.

The crux of the matter is Ford designed the Sierra braking system around the standard Sierra servo in conjunction with all the other standard components. When adopted complete in a Sierra based Marlin, the brake system works very well in a lighter weight car. Marlin introduced their own pedal box for engine gearbox combinations requiring an hydraulic clutch, and to make more engine bay space for the likes of the Rover V8, and latterly BMW engines with slanted blocks and double overhead cams. This pedal box required a smaller diameter servo to fit inside the engine bay side panel: hence the smaller diameter Metro unit was chosen. However, in doing so, Marlin have reduced the servo assitance, and the brakes on Cabrios, Hunters and Sportster have been viewed as barely adequate: this feeling has been exaserbated by modern cars having ever bigger servos fitted (in conjunction with ABS) requiring very little brake pedal pressure from the driver.

The Dual 7" servo offers almost identical assistance to the standard Sierra servo whilst retaining the smaller 7" diameter of the Metro (& Cortina) servo: it has a very similar stud fixing pattern to the Metro servo, making it a simple physical swap.
I have designed and sourced a laser cut adaptor plate which bolts to the new Dual 7" servo, and accepts the standard Sierra master cylinder. BMW based owners have found the BMW master cylinder will not fit the Dual servo as it has a closed face, and will not accept the depth of the BMW m/c body. These owners have had to source a new Ford Sierra 22mm bore master cylinder (around £45 new). Once fitted the brakes perform equally well in a Ford or BMW system.

To put numbers to the difference between a Metro servo system and the Dual 7" servo, one BMW Sportster owner has carried out a series of brake tests on an airfield. From a steady 70mph, the Metro assited brakes slowed the car from a fixed point to stationary over an average distance of 210 feet, measured over four tests, braking as physically hard as he could. With the Dual 7" servo fitted the average distance was just 103 feet, without maximum leg pressure.
Pressing harder, and taking the brakes to locking point on a fith run, reduced the stopping distance to just 80 feet. For the sake of his tyres he did not repeat the test!

The explanation is that brakes require a minimum critical pressure to work - discs more than drums. The standard Sierra set up was designed by Ford to provide that critical pressure. The Metro servo lacks sufficient diaphragm surface area to provide that critical pressure in the Marlin pedal box design set up. The new Dual 7" servo, has the required surface area, and takes the brake system back to the way Ford intended it to be in the Sierra.

This whole project is very well documented on the Madabout Kitcars website, and will take you through most of the questions and answers you may have as we worked our way through the project. Although there are 16 pages, you'll soon be able to skip through and pick up the telling bits of information, and issues we encountered.

http://www.madabout-kitcars.com/foru...t=3149&page=16

If you are still interested, give me a call on 07968 835101 anytime (I work from home, so anytime is ok).

Regards

Mike

[dcunn]

Re: Dual 7" Servo : Better Brakes - guaranteed!

....................and dare I say I'm another very satisfied customer.

If you want real brakes there when you need them, this is the answer.

Many thanks Mike for all your efforts

Rgds DC

Edit : In this pic the job is only part done, needs finishing/tidying and please
excuse the temporary cover plate. Thanks to David Siddall's suggestion, this
is the way to get to the pedals, but be aware that it's double skinned under
there. You may have a fiddle getting a straight thrust line from the brake
pedal to the servo as the servo may need to be offset to clear the bonnet.

[Mike]

Re: Better brakes- guaranteed!

All

I have had three Cabrio/Hunter owners express a late interest in the Dual 7" servo kit. If there are a couple more interested Sportster owners out there sitting on the fence thinking of joining in, I can order one last case of 6 servos.
It is clear the interest/demand has now almost run its course, having supplied 45 members already, so I will only order a case of 6 if I have committed interest for at least 5 of them.

For anyone still sitting on the fence thinking " I perhaps should join in while I can" - this is THE last chance of having someone organise the complete kit for you. After this batch - I will not be ordering any more.

Regards
Mike