Armageddon, or the end of car modifying as we know it.

[stevejgreen]

http://www.the-ace.org.uk/armageddon/

Is there a coordinated effort from Kit Car Companies and Clubs to counter this legislation?

It could see the end of our and the classic car hobby.

[rog8811]

Re: Armageddon, or the end of car modifying as we know it.

I have read and re-read a lot of the documents linked too above and have nothing but questions.

Car number one V5 says
Make Marlin
Model Roadster
First registered 1971

= looks like a Marlin - continue with MOT

Car number two V5 says
Make Triumph
Model Herald sports (just a guess here as I do not know exactly what it might say)
First registered 1971

= looks nothing like a Triumph herald of any kind - fail MOT

Please don't take any the above as being correct as I am just trying to get a handle on this.....

[greyV8pete]

Re: Armageddon, or the end of car modifying as we know it.

http://www.the-ace.org.uk/armageddon/

Is there a coordinated effort from Kit Car Companies and Clubs to counter this legislation?

It could see the end of our and the classic car hobby.

Just read this and it has ruined my whole day. Unbelievable! Who dreams up this stuff. Nobody with any knowledge of the real world obviously. What on earth is it supposed to achieve? Not improved safety for sure!

So the dual servo upgrade for our cars (proven to reduce braking distance i.e. safer) would be banned. My Classic headlights would have to be returned to tungsten filament bulbs and the additional hi-level brake light would have to be removed! Those classic car owners that have made sensible upgrades from front drum brakes to disc brakes from later models would have to go back to drums! Early cars that have had orange indicator flashers added would have to go back to the suicidal "trafficators"...... oh the list is endless.

[Robert in Cumbria]

Re: Armageddon, or the end of car modifying as we know it.

Is this Ace website genuine? Their language seems very inflammatory.

If true it will affect a wide range of vehicles, motorhomes particularly, and many commercial vehicles, vans trucks etc. Many trucks have extra axles and alterations to the structure, cranes fitted, etc.

The DRM copyright laws were thrown out recently but that was expected and predicted, this appears to have been sneaked in by the back door by the bureaucrats.

It seems a rapid mobilisation of the influential is called for.

[dflower]

Re: Armageddon, or the end of car modifying as we know it.

also you could add ambulances, prison vans, some fire brigade vehicles and ice cream vans. The list goes on and on.
Dave Flower.

[dflower]

Re: Armageddon, or the end of car modifying as we know it.

Please disregard my previous comments, I've just read the exemptions list.
Dave Flower.

[Robert in Cumbria]

Re: Armageddon, or the end of car modifying as we know it.

Ambulances, fire trucks and police cars don't have to comply but horse boxes, camper vans, trials cars, rally cars and motorbikes do?

Which are more critical to the community? Why exempt the emergency services, they should have 'safe' vehicles too.

This is the thicker end of that very long wedge that Ted Heath introduced back at the start of the common Market. I smelt a rat then, conformity of Europe to German ideals by stealth. :hardhat:

[B_Williams]

Re: Armageddon, or the end of car modifying as we know it.

MP & MEPs for my constituency now written to via

http://www.writetothem.com/

Has to be worth a try.

[Dane_Rescueman]

Re: Armageddon, or the end of car modifying as we know it.

800 word email sent tonight to all four local MEPs. Fat lot of use I suspect but I feel better now!
Pentille here I come - I will spread the word but hopefully they are all aware of the daft idea!

[greyV8pete]

Re: Armageddon, or the end of car modifying as we know it.

The FBHVC have picked up on this one.

See link http://fbhvc.co.uk/2012/08/23/eu-roa...iness-testing/

Peter.

[205 trialer]

Re: Armageddon, or the end of car modifying as we know it.

some received this http://links.govdelivery.com/track?t...form%2BV1a.xls

[lizbillings]

Re: Armageddon, or the end of car modifying as we know it.

During 36 years in the Road Transport Industry I have been forced to cope with increasingly restrictive legislation. These changes in the law are all part of this and lead to SVA and IVA testing.
As I understand it, panic is being spread for no good reason. All our cars which are correctly registered as Marlins with no major deviations from original specification should have no problem.
There is a test for radically altered vehicles which has been generally ignored and lead to things like landrovers with modern chassis and suspension fitted with bodywork and numberplates from early tax exempt vehicles.
This legislation will affect Ford Pops etc with V8 engines, and kit cars built on a existing non kit car chassis or floor pan to avoid IVA testing.

I hope this clears the air a little.

Doug Billings

[ken]

Re: Armageddon, or the end of car modifying as we know it.

I've written to my MEPs too. What a joke some idiots are being paid a fortune to come up with this drivel. I wish they would spend their time balancing the EU budget which has not been balanced from day one. No business would get away with this. Sorry I digress to things non Marlin.or motoring. I'll get off my hobby horse now.

[lil_red_roadster]

Re: Armageddon, or the end of car modifying as we know it.

So let's take a hypothetical scenario...a Marina-based Roadster registered on a Q plate as a Marlin Roadster.

Now modify it...how far can you go without breaching the proposed new rules OR the existing radically-altered vehicle (RAV for ease) legislation...?

And can someone tell me how RAV applies to already registered vehicles (e.g. Mini's with VTEC engines, MGB with major engine & suspension changes)...it seems completely arbitrary - you are only obliged to notify DVLA of engine changes, yet an overly picky MOT inspector can pass your car but still report you to VOSA if he thinks the car no longer conforms to what he expects it to (e.g. the Rangie masquerading as a Series Landie for tax exemption purposes).

Under RAV there is the points system (which in fact predates RAV IIRC)...so if you keep the existing chassis/monocoque and DO NOT modify it in any structural way (typically taken to mean chopping bulkheads & tunnels or main cross members) you score 5 points. You need another 3 points to keep the identity...suspension (F&R ) scores 2, as do transmission (gearbox or gearbox & diff?) steering (rack or rack & column?) and axles (both), engine scores 1.

It's not clear whether any allowance is made for using what I would term "substantive" elements of each category...

So back to the scenario...our hypothetical Marina-based Roadster...how would it stand if the rear axle was swapped for a Dolly Sprint item & 4-linked, coupled with Type 9 gearbox, non-standard engine, front torsions removed & coilovers used with adjustable tie rods.

Of the point scoring elements we have a chassis which may have had additional mountings added for the suspension so unclear if we get the full 5 points there, nothing scored for engine, transmission or for the rear suspension, 2 front suspension uprights & a steering rack which might provide 2 points between them (if being generous)...

Not hard to see that, if enforced (and there's the rub) a lot of cars could get wiped off the road.

[Dane_Rescueman]

Re: Armageddon, or the end of car modifying as we know it.

Hi, I have contacted my local MEP, I enclose my text below:



"Dear Trevor Colman, William (The Earl of) Dartmouth, Sir Graham Watson and Giles Chichester,

I write as a member of the large body of British people who have a direct connection in the hobby of Kit Car and Classic car use. I have
rather belatedly been informed of a proposed EU dictat that would prevent the enjoyment and use of our vehicles. This piece of proposed legislation has been known to HMG via DfT for a while but not well disseminated countrywide.

Quoting from the DfT document:-

The Commission proposes to introduce a definition for a roadworthiness test that components of the vehicle must comply with characteristics at the time of first registration. This may prevent most modifications to vehicles without further approval of the vehicle. (this will apply to many components and to all types of vehicle)

The Commission proposes to change the definition of an Historic Vehicle that may be exempt from periodic testing. This may allow vehicles older than 30 years to be exempt from testing providing the vehicle has been maintained in its original condition, including its appearance.

This legislation is quite clearly being introduced by people with a geo/political agenda as the road safety points do not add up. Kit cars are probably the safest on the road as the drivers understand the abilities and workings of the machine, each one has to pass a strict IVA test which cars from a production line do not and high quality new or refurbished components are used in the painstaking manufacture of the vehicles. Any additions or changes in the lifetime of these vehicles only adds to their safety and quality. Classic vehicle owners do modify the vehicles from original for safety reasons. An example:
Changing original weak drum brakes for modern efficient disc brakes is something a lot of owners do. This will become illegal. Therefore, to allow the vehicle to be used on the roads the inefficient and dangerous original systems would need to be reinstalled.

There are many more examples of how this scurroulous new law will have the opposite effect on safety and roadworthiness to that envisaged by the unelected law makers.

All I ask is that an overview is carried out by yourselves to gain knowledge of the real facts before nodding this bad law through to the usual HMG "gold plating" process. Think about it. Under this law it would be technically illegal to fit a non original roof rack to your vehicle or even install furry dice! (well, perhaps furry dice should be illegal, but I hope you understand the point).

Surely they should be spending more time and energy in sorting out their bankrupt, artificial currency problems which, if not solved, will wreak havoc to every European countries' finances, including our own."




I received a reply from one MEP, William, the Earl of Dartmouth. He has given me permission to reproduce his reply on this web site. It is as follows:



"Thank you for writing to me about the EU's latest move to tighten the screw on motorists in general, and the owners of historic and customised vehicles in particular, by means of further modifications to the MOT-test, which require (Art.3(9)) that

"the parts and components of a vehicle comply with its safety and environmental characteristics in force at the time of approval, first registration or entry into service".

This will effectively put an end to car-customisation.

The Regulation appears to exempt "vehicles of historic interest", until we look at the definition of such vehicles, which states (Art.3(7)) that


"'vehicle of historic interest' means any vehicle which fulfils all the following conditions :
- It was manufactured at least 30 years ago,
- It is maintained by use of replacement parts which reproduce the historic components of the vehicle;
- It has not sustained any change in the technical characteristics of its main components such as engine, brakes, steering or suspension and
- It has not been changed in its appearance;"

This will effectively ban historic cars from the roads.

Like its predecessor (Directive 2009/40/EC) the Regulation enforces the "Vehicle-Type Approval" requirements, issued by the United Nations Organisation.

The Regulation also delegates, to the EU-Commission, the ability "to adopt acts" and to exercise "implementing-powers", to modify the Regulation further, at the EU-Commission's own discretion (Art.18) and requires that test-results, from all EU-states, be collected centrally (Art. 14)

UKIP will, of course, oppose this regulation in every way possible.

Unfortunately, the opposition mounted by UKIP's 13 members at the EU's "parliament" is rarely supported by more than 60 of the other 740 members, and indeed, the Parliament has rejected only two of the tens-of-thousands of proposals, which the EU-Commission has made this century.

The UK-government could refuse to implement this particular Regulation, because "vehicle-testing", surprisingly enough, is - as the Regulation puts it - "a sovereign matter"; but the chances of our pro-EU government doing that are, I would think, nil.

It seems most unlikely that this Regulation will not become law, whereupon the only way to repeal it will be to repeal the European Communities Act, which is the basis of all EU-authority in the UK. The repeal of this Act is UKIP's central aim."



So this is where we are at the moment. Does anyone know if firms such as Europa, Burton and Demon Tweeks are involving themselves in this topic? They would surely lose a lot of business if this becomes law. Anyway, it is something to chew over.