The IVA Test

[Terry_Scott]

Re: The IVA Test

thanks danny

[Terry_Scott]

Re: The IVA Test

boy . did i start something or was it danny talking about extending a steering shaft, dont worry guys i have been repairing aircraft for years and designing structural repairs on aircraft of all sorts so it wont be a gash job and i wont be doing the welding myself, i will get a professional, i just designed how to do it.
its away being done now, and if it comes back and is not good enough i will try again.
one thing about being an aircraft inspector for years is you do get to know whats good and what is not good, and i do have to agree, welding is very black art, i respect those that know the technicalities, every body to his own game a they say

[James]

Re: The IVA Test

Hi Terry,
Just a word about your protruding front wheels. I had the same (IVA-type) problem here in Sweden, on mu first Berlinetta the original 15"x7" Compomotives protruded about half an inch outside the wings. The fix turned out to be quite simple thanks to the interchangeability of Ford parts. The front hub assembly from a rear wheel drive Escort is just over half an inch narrower than the Cortina's and it bolts straight on. The big problem today is probably finding the parts from the Escort. Later Berlinettas that I have built have had 15"x6" Compomotives and they do fit within the side of the wings.
I have also had the problem with the steering column that I managed to fix without welding but you have had a lot of advise on that so I will pass on it.

[Terry_Scott]

Re: The IVA Test

hi james
thanks for that info, every little helps.
i have moved the steering column back 4 inches from the design by welding a tube with a flat plate on it just behind the steel bulkhead and bolted the aft column support to the cross box section behind the dash, everything is fine , i just need to lengthen the plane shaft down to the steering rack which should be easy , how did you do it then ?
For the wings i am fitting capri wheels to the front and i am going to pack the wings out by 1/2 inch, that shouldn't be to difficult, for the back to keep the gearing right as i have fitted an auto box , i am fitting the standard berlinetta wheels and packing the wings out to cover the wheels, sound easy, but i bet it will be a long job.

terry

[Terry_Scott]

Re: The IVA Test

Hi everbody thought you might like to see this, it is my reply to paul who is thinking of putting his Berlinetta throught the IVA test
Hi Paul
Put a berlinetta through the IVA ?? well one club member said it would need so many changes it wouldnt look like a berlinetta, which i took (like an idiot) as a challenge.
so the list is quite extensive really and i am not there yet, but by the end of april the car goes in for a test whether it is finished or not, the reason for this is the glass supplied with the kit is none compliant after that date and VOSA have confirmed to me they WILL NOT extend that date, they have confirmed they will pass what they can , anything (or everything) it fails on i will have 6 months to fix, so it gives me an extension of the windscreens
the first thing you need to do is download the IVA manual, its about 1.5 inches thick when you print it off so you need tons of paper and ink cartridges.
a major job is you have redesign the seat belt mountings especially the bottom centre mount, so you need some structure built near the centre tunnel and something for the top of the shoulder mount, regrettably you end up cutting a hole in the roof to get the height for the mounting, before i send this i shall try to work out how to post a picture for you to see this.
the next issue is the wings need to cover the wheels, 4 problems here one is they are not wide enough, so i packed mine out by an inch each side from front to back, the next problem is the back of the wings are two high so i took them off and just drilled them again lower down on the body at the back, see the IVA manual for dimensions , mine needed lowering about 1.5 inches, next the front, the only way to fix this was to lower the suspension which requires new springs, BUT i also had to fit 13" wheels on the front to get it low enough, looks good really big Berlinetta wheels on the back, small 13 in wheels on the front. (this is all because of the wings)
the knock on effect from this is you need two spare wheels or none at all so now the boot looks odd with no spare wheel, plus the exhaust will hit every speed bump in the UK, so mine comes out of the engine bay and under the right wing, it was the only way to keep it high enough.
another subject which is not really IVA but really is required is to extend he steering column by 4.5 inches, no mean feat but i did it in the end, this is so the light switches and indicators are in the car with you and not buried in the dash.
there are loads of other trival things to get the car through the IVA, lighting, switches, sharp edges, fuel tank and fuel caps etc try and start with the IVA manual, its free and a really riveting read (not).
any other questions, just reply, i think i have fixed most of them.
irrespective of what happens on my first test i shall put some words on here for all to see.
terry

p.s. gave up trying to get a picture on here it needs a URL which means i guess i have host it on a website ? , maybe somebody can advise me .....

[Tony Stott]

Re: The IVA Test

Sign up to photobucket,com upload images and the you will have a hosting url to list here , this links to your photobucket account and as the frogs would say voila ca marche - I use that system for extra images on ebay stuff!

[Mike]

Re: The IVA Test

Hi everbody thought you might like to see this, it is my reply to paul who is thinking of putting his Berlinetta throught the IVA test
Hi Paul
Put a berlinetta through the IVA ?? well one club member said it would need so many changes it wouldnt look like a berlinetta, which i took (like an idiot) as a challenge.
so the list is quite extensive really and i am not there yet, but by the end of april the car goes in for a test whether it is finished or not,
the first thing you need to do is download the IVA manual, its about 1.5 inches thick when you print it off so you need tons of paper and ink cartridges.
a major job is you have redesign the seat belt mountings especially the bottom centre mount, so you need some structure built near the centre tunnel and something for the top of the shoulder mount, regrettably you end up cutting a hole in the roof to get the height for the mounting, before i send this i shall try to work out how to post a picture for you to see this.


.....................................irrespective of what happens on my first test i shall put some words on here for all to see.
terry

p.s. gave up trying to get a picture on here it needs a URL which means i guess i have host it on a website ? , maybe somebody can advise me .....

Terry

I am intrigued by why it was necessary to make a hole in the roof for the seat belts?

Have you tried inserting a photo from your own computer file of photos?
Image insert, (icon above next to globe with a cross)
From Computer
Select Files
Choose your own photo - click on it, and it inserts into the Forum drop down
Click down load, and voila!

Photo does NOT appear straight away it shows (attach) phot ref (attach), but the photo appears when you post your thread.

Berlinettas 798.jpg


What browser are you using?

When attaching from a host site
Insert image
Click URL in drop down menu and uncheckRetrieve remote.......
Then open a new tab to find the photo you want to insert
Right click on it
Select Copy URL
Tab back to your Forum thread
Paste
Go

Photo appears straight away.




If you down load from another site I found you have to uncheck the ticked box for "Retrieve remote file.................."

[PaulW]

Re: The IVA Test

Hi terry , Thanks for IVA experiences to date , boy it sure sounds daunting. Will have a look at the IVA manual as a start !! Paul

[danny_nelson]

Re: The IVA Test

Hi Terry I have details of another Berlinetta owner still building and asking about IVA keen to talk to you. Could you email me? and I will send contact details. He is not a club member.
Danny.

[PaulW]

Re: The IVA Test

Hi Terry, Is it good news about the Berli IVA Test ????? PaulW

[danny_nelson]

Re: The IVA Test

Hi Paul, Has Terry contacted you?

[PaulW]

Re: The IVA Test

Hi Danny, Have been out Marlin circulation since Stoneleigh, any news from Terry re Berli IVA. Paul

[danny_nelson]

Re: The IVA Test

Hi Paul, I am sorry to say the news was all bad.
Danny

[Terry_Scott]

Re: The IVA Test

Hi everybody
My Berlinetta failed the VOSA IVA test so badly, it was only fit to be driveway ornament, below is why ....happy reading
the marlin berlinetta and the iva test.
the unwritten rule on passing the vosa iva test , not in the iva manual, beware.
i have built 2 kitcars but having spent numerous years building my last car a marlin berlinetta which was not designed to pass any test apart from the mot test it was a struggle to build the whole car with the aim of passing the iva test.
the first step was to print off the complete iva manual , all umpteen pages of it and study every page so that you understand what every page meant in relation to building your car.
then read the whole manual again because you always miss a few items of detail the first time round, when you have finished carry out the whole exercise again , by this time you should have a good idea what tasks you will have to overcome on building your elderly designed kitcar .
before we put the iva manual to one side be sure to check the vosa website for updates in issue of the manual, the manual went up in two issues whilst my car was in the final build stages.
so you have read the manual from front to back 3 times and now feel confident you can convert the originaly designed car to pass the test first time.
when you get the personal disipline right to build and modify car in accordance with the various rules of the iva manual then you are well on the way to a pass certificate , or are you ?
i built a car exactly as per the manufacturer of the kit explained in the instruction manual and then modified it to suit the iva requirements for wheels under wings , the wings at the right height at the front and back noting if you move the wing on most cars you move the lights as well, so watch that.
the car was now ready test , i then went through every page in the iva manual just once more to be on the safe side, what could possibly go wrong now ???.....
i booked the test and was advised to bring lunch because the tester wanted all day !! how could a test take all day it was just a super mot, wasent it ? well actually its not as i was about to find out .
as the test started everything was going well and the tester said we should be finished by lunch time, it was easier than he thought, then he dropped the bombshell i wasent expecting at all, its not a rule in the iva manual i missed , it was not the tester being a jobsworth , it was in hindsight a major design fault when considering the build standard required today that was not apparent when the car was originally designed .
now you must appreciate there are over 400 cars built like the car that just failed the iva test on the road today and they pass 400 mot tests a year.
after i had calmed down from having my pride and joy fail the test making it the most expensive front garden ornament in exsistance becUse thats what it now was i stepped back and took a long look at the situation i was faced with.
the front suspension of the marlin berlinetta is basically a mk4 cortina front suspension subframe, what could possibly be wrong with that ? well its the way it is attached to the marlin berlinetta manufactured chassis, hey its a kit car, whats wrong with that,well let me explain.
a mk 4 cortina front subframe is attached to the body of the cortina at the front and at top, on the berlinetta the same subframe is mounted at the back to the berlinetta chassis , not at the front and not at the top as ford designed it .
the testers view and as i later found out vosa as well is that the subframe is not fitted the way the manufacturer designed , which is true..
so back to the point of this story "the unwritten rule on passing the iva test is not in the iva manual" well the point is the iva test is in there to prove a car is safe, now you can discuss wether a car needs this radius on this part or this type of light fitted in this place until the pubs run out of beer if you like but dont overlook the bigger picture is the car safe???.
i guess by this time i have 400 berlinetta owners violently objecting to this statement but if ford designed a component to be fitted on a certain way then who are we to say its ok to fit it in a totally different way.
structurally i feel it is fine but who is to know the logic of car parts design 45 years ago , thats assuming there was any structural design logic at that time, just build it strong enough to do the job.
So in a nutshell a berlinetta with the front suspension from a cortina fitted in a way described by Marlin in their build instructions will never pass an IVA test, sorry to the 400 dedicated berlinetta owners , but its true.

Terry Scott,
if you want to contact me direct then please use mail [email protected] because i will be leaving this forum soon

[danny_nelson]

Re: The IVA Test

I dont think there is much more to say about this, but I feel a reply is needed. I have talked with Terry some months back. So Berlinetta designed 1984 does not meet IVA requirements 2013 that is the bottom line. I have sympathy for Terry but anyone trying to IVA any old kit car not designed for Sva let alone Iva almost 30 years since design does so against all published advice, and of course at there peril. For several years now I have been trying to discourage anyone who has contacted me on the subject ( very dificult if a builder has already spent many years on a build) Very difficult to explain that the value of any non reg kit is parts only. At this time I only know of one other person with a Cortina based Berly who was determined to carry on. I have since lost touch with this builder. Now on the subject of safety, I think that any of us who chose to drive any kit car must satisfy ourselves as to the designers ability. We must feel it is right for us or not as the case may be. I am confident that the front end of my Berlinetta is okay ( Ford Cortina front suspension framework, now mounted at the back to the chassis is now more of a beam to carry the front suspension members ) This is my personal opinion and I am quite happy with the set up. Now on a brighter note anyone who really wants a Berlinetta and really wants to build Then there are Berlinettas that become available that are in need of TLC cars that have current reg and can be up graded, re built. modified etc etc without the need to meet any current requirements (at present)
Danny.