The IVA Test

[cameronfurnival]

Re: The IVA Test

It's terrible news! I mean, we can all argue about the merits or otherwise of the use of commercially produced components put to use in different ways (sometimes more efficiently than in the original cars) but if the man at vosa says "no" then what can we do?

[danny_nelson]

Re: The IVA Test

Short answer to that question Cameron is we can do nothing.

[Dane_Rescueman]

Re: The IVA Test

I realise that we are up against a wall when common sence is required. However, what the examiner failed to realise is that the sub frame, when mounted in the Cortina (which was a monocoque, not a steel box section strong chassis), had not only the suspension, steering and braking loads but the huge effort of supporting a very heavy engine and two thirds of the weight of a heavy gearbox. It had to cope with the power on torque effects and the overrun torque in the other direction. All the powertrain mass and torque loads have been removed in the Berlinetta. The beam is plenty strong enough for the steering, braking and weight/ rebound forces. If Marlin had manufactured a similar beam mounted in a similar way then it would be assumed by a tester that the dynamics had been calculated and the manufacturere would know what they are doing. Would VOSA be prepared to listen to a formal Marlin Owners Club submission? There is surely an avenue, however tortuous, for this.

Also there is a risk that this particular examiner may feel, in the interests of safety, to warn VOSA that there may be 400 "unsafe" Berlinettas on the road? He/she would be sensible in their own domain to do this!!!

In the highly unlikely event of being donated a Berli for a chassis destructive testing session, I reckon that a couple of the Marlin chassis outriggers would deform/fail before the cross member is damaged. I have always been more nervous of these welded on items that the subframe itself!

Having said this, A good fabricator could use stock steel box sections to make a new front beam that would do everything the Ford item does but would look the part for an examiner.

Although my Berli recently passed a very stringent MoT am I safe to drive another 42000 miles in it?

[danny_nelson]

Re: The IVA Test

Hi Dane,
I had talked with Terry about a fabricated beam to carry the suspension, and I do have photos of a Berly with fabricated beam , towers and wishbones and coil overs .
I do not feel there will be any problem with cars already on the road because there would be a knock on to many many kitcars/ specials . For instance Marina roadster Marina upright mini top arm? is that how Leyland designed it. Cabrio, Sierra upright fitted with a mushroom where the mac strut was is that how Ford designed? These are just examples without talking about the huge no of specials and kitcars built using all sorts of available parts. As for mot as you and I know that is fairly basic stuff and as soon as you drive off it means very little. Are you safe to drive another 42000miles? Only you can decide that , everyone driving any special/kitcar home built/ factory built etc has to satisfy themselves that the designer knows what they are doing. Now as for Iva ,Vosa, etc , when SVA was introduced it was brought in gradual and a period of grace was given for any car which was not correctly reg to be sorted. A period of grace was given for the older kit to be finished and put through an SVA with lots of items excluded because of the kit being older. This period was then extended to try to help anyone still building. Kitcar mags covered all this and also ran articles designed to help in preparing the older kit for the test. Bear in mind this was the late 1990s ! I do not think there is any avenue in 2013 after all that was put in place. However I am going to pm you to talk further.
Danny.



Bear in mind this was in the late 1990s So what chance now 2013?

[Alan B Gloucester]

Re: The IVA Test

Hiya, just noticed a berli has just gone on Ebay. 231066964434. it's in a state but has reg.Q 33 VME. could be an ideal clone. just a thought. Cheers Alan.

[Mike]

Re: The IVA Test

Hiya, just noticed a berli has just gone on Ebay. 231066964434. it's in a state but has reg.Q 33 VME. could be an ideal clone. just a thought. Cheers Alan.

Hi Alan

I trust you are suggesting Terry could transfer the good parts of his Berly to restore the one on ebay?!!

As a club we would not, of course, wish to be seen to be advocating flouting the law by suggesting he uses the vehicle identification and registration of the registered Berly to put his own (failed chassis) on the road...............!!

(It has to be said that it is bureaucratic nonesense since both chassis will be identical, yet one is legal, while the other is not).

[Terry_Scott]

Re: The IVA Test

Hi everybody
Terry Scott here , now the building kit car scene is getting so crazy i am going to leave it and go back to restoring registered cars, sad as it is , why ?? you may say, what a wimp !!
well in our town a few months ago a VOSA tester walked into the test station and checked the V5 Recorded details for a kit car on the ramp being tested, it appeared to be a normal Lotus 7 look a like, but the V5 record said it was a Sierra, cos the guy that built it just put the donor number plates on it, all be it many years ago.
since then the car has had two owners, the current owner was told by VOSA the test is stopped and you cant drive it home, and cannot put it on the road until it has passed an IVA test , which of course it wont pass.
the current owner now has it in his garage absolutely worthless and dosent know what to do now.

as i said the kit car scene is crazy now, basically if your V5 isnt squeaky clean you could end up in the same situation at any MOT in the future, so it is a great shame and the passing of an era really, if your Marlin's V5 is ok , then you are lucky and will enjoy many years of the kit car scene, if it isnt,,,, you know the rest.

Terry

by the way , on my Berlinetta IVA test i think the tester got a call halfway through the test that put him on to the suspension issue, because after the call he went straight for the front suspension and from then on it was all downhill, but i cant be sure, just a thought that will stay with me forever..

[cameronfurnival]

Re: The IVA Test

real shame you are leaving the kit scene Terry, what are qou going to do with the berli though? Surely you wont be using it as an ornamental water feature in the garden?

[stevejgreen]

Re: The IVA Test

Interesting and worrying times if as Terry says, VOSA can effectively take an otherwise legal car off the road because the registration document does not accurately reflect the actual chassis. I know of one Roadster among many that is listed as a Marlin Sports, technically I suppose this would similarly 'fail' the same test as technically a Marlin Sports is not a definitive model.
Dannys suggestion that a Roadster might be failed for using a Mini top arm is a little tenuous, the arm is used in a very similar manner on the Mini and is mounted in a very similar manner, being fixed directly to the chassis as intended by the designers. The Berlinetta, Cortina subframe is not mounted as it as designed to be fitted to a Cortina, so the fixings will not have been stress analysed at the design change.
It is difficult to know where an alteration to a design specification might have an impact, shortened springs, propshaft couplings under greater load when oversize engines are fitted with greater torque or even the fact that different shock absorbers might be fitted...

Just wear the limits of acceptability apply will be don to an individual VOSA examiner and his critical eyes. Would there be a right of appeal to such decisions, or are they taken as correct with no appeal possible. I cant believe this is just a Marlin problem!

How may it effect the re-bodied cars, where the original chassis/floor-pan is kept? Externally the car will not look like its donor though the significant mechanicals remain...

[danny_nelson]

Re: The IVA Test

My information is that Marlin should appear as the make. Body type/model, does not matter (Sports, convertible, coupe, roadster, Cabrio, Berlinetta, whatever. to name a few.
However This is not something new, as I have said in a previous post. All cars/ kitcars are at risk at MOT time ,or any other time for that matter if they are not reg correctly and can be taken off the road at any time. My suggestion about Roadster front suspension was only an example of what might be an examiners opinion at IVA. I believe the process is a proper can of worms if trying to IVA an old kit. Re bodied cars are not reqd to go through Iva at this time.

[listerjp2]

Re: The IVA Test

Hi Alan

I trust you are suggesting Terry could transfer the good parts of his Berly to restore the one on ebay?!!

As a club we would not, of course, wish to be seen to be advocating flouting the law by suggesting he uses the vehicle identification and registration of the registered Berly to put his own (failed chassis) on the road...............!!

(It has to be said that it is bureaucratic nonesense since both chassis will be identical, yet one is legal, while the other is not).

You could take one that needs a bit of work like this Ebay Item 321232298603

[keith_h]

Re: The IVA Test

Getting back to the very first question. Does the IVA specify that the whole of the wheel should be inside the wing or is it too flippant to suggest that the camber angle / toe in could be used to tip the top of the tyre inside the wing. If I have got the maths right then to achieve 1/2 " on a 15" wheel you are looking at just under 4deg which isn't very much at all and you probably need that or more to help with self centering

[Mike]

Re: The IVA Test

Hi Keith

IVA says:
"The wheel guard must cover the full breadth of the tyre throughout the required dimensions (defined as 30 degrees in front of the tyre, and 50 degrees behind), when viewed vertically, horizontally, and longitudinally.

Nice try Keith, but VOSA have worked that one out.........this is why I have changed my wheels for my test - so that they are all within the wings when viewed from above.


- But of course they will all need changing the moment I get my car through its test!!