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Triumph Front Suspension (hybrid) advice please

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  • Triumph Front Suspension (hybrid) advice please

    My 'new' hybrid chassis had some rather old Triumph Herald early 12 disk front suspension loosely fitted when I got it.

    Christopher taking the rack off.

    Triumph front susp.jpg

    I removed and stripped it, one side was pretty good but the other side needs new wheel bearings, top ball swivel joint and track rod end, the lower plastic trunnion bearing was seized solid.

    I plan to replace both sides lower plastic trunnion bearings, and the other parts together with all 8 inner wishbone rubber bushes. I have considered the Polyurethane bushes but can't justify the extra cost.

    My main concern is the lower wishbone inner brackets. The studs (bolts?) which are attached to the brackets are a devilish tight fit in their holes through the chassis. So tight that to remove them I had to resort to walloping them very hard with a 1 1/2 Lb copper hammer on the threaded end to move them at all and they were tight all the way out. Any attempt to pull them out with a lever threatened to bend the stud (bolt?).

    Screen Shot 2012-09-12 at 09.59.59.jpg

    The holes are clean with no paint in them and the studs are clean and reasonably straight. I feel the holes are way too tight. I an reluctant to open them up because since all the holes are this tight I figure there may be a reason? Are these holes so tight by design or do they need opening up slightly? Once an engine is fitted it will be much harder to remove the rear brackets, and I don't like walloping threaded fasteners that hard.

    In the same area and on a similar vein the side attachments for the suspension turrets, the 4 bolts each side screw into little threaded plates which slide into channels welded to the chassis sides. I am replacing the setscrews with new setscrews, the length is critical because except for the bottom rear bolt there is nowhere for excess length to go, because the assembly is so close to the chassis. The 'loose assembly' consisted of a mixture of assorted washers, flat thick and thin; and fat and thin spring washers.

    I don't seem to be able to obtain the same thick spring washers which seem to be original. So, I was thinking of using some heavy flat washers together with the best spring washers I can find? Does this sound the best compromise? Or does anybody know where I can get the original extra heavy spring washers please? Given this car will be used for trialling I want the suspension to stay firmly attached, it will get some hammer.

    I have made up a spring compressor with some scrap I had lying around, I managed to dismantle the unit easily enough without a compressor but I can see the dangers Ben drew attention to in the recent Pitstop. The springs are under quite a bit of pressure, I strongly endorse Ben's warning about the 'Unexploded Bomb'. If anybody needs a compressor I will gladly lend them mine.

    Triumph Spring Compressor.jpg
    Last edited by Robert in Cumbria; 13-09-12, 07:43 AM.

  • #2
    Re: Triumph Front Suspension (hybrid) advice please

    Hi Robert, Like to see them started young.

    I seem to remember the lower brackets being tight on my chassis the tube is a minimal ID so you wont do any harm running a round file through them just enough to give a good fit.


    The tower bolts(as long as they are the right ones) should be ok with a thick washer and a spring washer or you could take the tip off the bolt. You coud make up a locking tab if your that worried but a dab of Locktite would do just aswell.


    Well done on the bomb disposal by the way.
    Ben Caswell probably not the last word on anything here!!

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Triumph Front Suspension (hybrid) advice please

      LOL Keeping them off is the challenge.

      Michael trying to weld!

      Michael Welding.jpg

      Thanks for the info, I will ease the holes slightly, I was concerned they may be some obscure reason for the tightness.

      The new tower setscrews appear to be 'T' quality so they should be OK. They are inch and a quarter long so I will trim them down as required, I think between 7/8" and 15/16".


      While on the subject of the Triumph suspension bolt details, the eight bolts securing the eight inner metalastic bushes were all secured by a decent dab of weld, presumably to stop the bolts turning in their holes and wearing the holes, is that standard practice with the Triumph suspension towers? I had to cut or grind away all the welds in order to remove the wishbone arms. Is it good practice to re-weld these bolts?

      Finally, for now! I have a collection of shims which came from behind the lower wishbone brackets. They were, I think, only put in casually to stop them from getting lost. Is there any documentation relating to setting up the Triumph front suspension? Perhaps there is an article somewhere that would give me a starting point to the setup?


      I hope I am not asking 'silly' questions but never having worked on Triumph suspension before I don't want to mess the job up for the want of asking.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Triumph Front Suspension (hybrid) advice please

        Hi Robert

        The shims set the castor and camber

        To change the camber add (or remove) a shim from both the front and rear fixing

        To change the castor add (or remove) a shim from either the front or rear fixing

        I have a Triumph workshop manual that gives settings and how to adjust but you would need an approrate measuring gauge. It might be easier to ask a few members to count how many shims are fitted to their cars as a starting point. The Mark 1 build maual makes no mention of the shims!

        With regard to the welded nuts I've never experienced a problem with the bolt turning and wearing the bracket.

        Regards

        Nick

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        • #5
          Re: Triumph Front Suspension (hybrid) advice please

          Thanks Nick,

          I think the shims will vary substantially between cars, I guess I need a Manual for the Triumph Herald or a datasheet with the relevant angles and a level floor. Using an accurate spirit level I should be able to set it up.

          Is your Manual a works one or a Haynes Manual? The Haynes Manuals usually have most of the data but I don't have a Herald manual yet...

          Interesting re the welded bolts, perhaps a previous owner had a thing about it? Only the bolt heads were welded, the nuts were free, enabling the suspension to be loaded then tightened. In many ways I would prefer to leave them un-welded because if I need to remove a part of the suspension to repair it if they are welded it's pretty hard to get the wishbones out.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Triumph Front Suspension (hybrid) advice please

            Steve, your PM in-box is full.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Triumph Front Suspension (hybrid) advice please

              I have located the relevant pages on suspension and steering settings from the works manual for Triumph Herald/Spitfire.

              I have created a PDF for anybody interested. PM your eMail addy and I will send it. 4Mb Zipped, 5.2Mb unzipped.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Triumph Front Suspension (hybrid) advice please

                As nick says with the shims, nearly every triumph I have pulled apart has had two shims behind each bracket, obviusly a good starting point as then you can add or take away to achieve the correct settings.

                The wishbone pivot bolts should be located by a pressed lug on the bracket that locates on one flat of the head of the bolt, not welded to the bolt.

                I have also noticed in your pictures that the suspension unit had a spacer above it. Certainly not a Triumph part! Although the bush does not revolve on the bolt you would be wise to grease them as its a pig of a job to get them out if they sieze in the tube.
                Last edited by b_caswell; 14-09-12, 02:23 PM.
                Ben Caswell probably not the last word on anything here!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Triumph Front Suspension (hybrid) advice please

                  Thanks for the comments Ben.

                  I have found the pressed detent under the weld! Perhaps they had rounded the detents off so added a dab of weld? I think I will build the weld up slightly then grind/file it to a tight fit on a bolt flat.

                  Several of the bolts were seized in the tubes and had to be cut out. The worst one was an upper wishbone in the tower where I couldn't get a saw... I have a large tub of CopperEase! So I will apply it like I am not paying for it.

                  I was pleased to read in the works manual that the 3/8" UNF setscrews securing the tower ARE supposed to be fitted with a flat and a spring washer, I think I will add some locktite for good measure as you suggest.


                  As for the spacer, I though it was part of the deal? Thanks for pointing out that it's a non standard* part. I think I will retain it though, depending on the ride height. I could even make some thicker ones.


                  * Hidden pun not intended but will let it stand!
                  Last edited by Robert in Cumbria; 14-09-12, 04:13 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Triumph Front Suspension (hybrid) advice please

                    OH that jibe comes in handy when the insurance company asks is the engine standard "well of course it is its Triumph"
                    Last edited by b_caswell; 15-09-12, 09:09 AM.
                    Ben Caswell probably not the last word on anything here!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Triumph Front Suspension (hybrid) advice please

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Triumph Front Suspension (hybrid) advice please

                        Just had a look at my (ex) Mark 1 (Triumph based) Roadster - This has two shims front and rear, and no problems with tyre wear. So that would be a good place to start from.

                        Have fun

                        Nick Tinsdeall

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Triumph Front Suspension (hybrid) advice please

                          Great Nick, many thanks. Two shims must be Standard!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Triumph Front Suspension (hybrid) advice please

                            Mine too (a hybrid) has two shims front & rear either side.

                            For any other odd triumph spares requirements try Canley Classics in Fillongley (Coventry).

                            They keep most parts for 4 cylinder Triumphs. They could probably have supplied the correct short bolts for the towers. Proved to be very helpful to me when that old fella backed off his drive in front of me & wrote my hybrid off - was driveable again after 2 weeks.

                            Neil.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Triumph Front Suspension (hybrid) advice please

                              Does anybody recognise these!

                              I have eight shims, two different kinds.

                              Presumably there were two per mounting. The two different types are both the same thickness, but I think I will get two more matching shims, they are about 2mm or 0.075" thick. There are six proper ones and the two others.

                              Triumph suspension shims.jpg

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