Front Wing Height on hybrid chassis

[Robert in Cumbria]

Hi all,

While the engine is being re-bored, my next area of activity is going to be the front bodywork.

I have mocked up the panels but I am having a hard time knowing what height the front wing tops should be, from say the ground, or from the top of a 165-13" tyre. The chassis just behind the front wheel is about 190mm clearance from the ground at the moment. I don't want it any lower, hopefully I would like it higher, I am not sure how high the Triumph suspension will go. May need to make some more aluminium spacers...

The front side hole of the nose cone matches OK with the inner wing panel, valance? but the other holes don't match up because the bottom of the nose cone slopes down quite steeply to the front bumper, as shown in this pic.

Marlin Mockup.jpg

I think the rear portion of the wing panel (what I would call the running board) should be level with the chassis under the door. That might determine the height over the wheel?

This pic is almost the same but of a Marina Marlin, not Triumph. The running board is almost parallel with the bottom of the door, but on my hybrid chassis the doors were much higher, at least 3" above the running board.

Red Marlin front quarter.jpg

Any ideas please? I think I would like to go for cycle wings eventually but for now I need to make progress, I can refine things later.

[b_caswell]

Re: Front Wing Height on hybrid chassis


http://tiyen.com/moc/marlin_roadster_mk2_manual.pdf Look at drawing 18 as the measurement are the same as for hybrid and Mk2. But as you have raised the A post I am not sure how you want the wings tobe but the nose sits on the front bumper bar and meets the inner wing that will control everything else.

[Robert in Cumbria]

Re: Front Wing Height on hybrid chassis

Thanks Ben,

That is the info I was looking for, I will mix and match for heights but I needed a starting point.

I am with you on the nose cone, when the side panels are bolted to the three holes on each side of the nose cone they sit square to the 'A' posts and about 2" below the bracket they used to attach to. There are major differences in height at the front comparing the Triumph and Marina chassis, as I remember you mentioned early on but fortunately they seem to be working in my favour.

I will post some pix of the assembly as I go on, I find the way it's all clicking together quite wonderful.

I would like to make the side panels removable if I can without too much messing about. I don't want to hack the original inner wing panels, they may be of some use to somebody in the future. I plan to make some new ones eventually but if I can utilise them for now then that would be good.

I think I want the wings about where thy were related to the bottom of the chassis, or the ground...

These chassis are very curved, the Marina more than the Triumph. It may be to get the torsion bars under the main rails.

[CosworthCabrioLee]

Re: Front Wing Height on hybrid chassis

Thats my Garden lol

[Robert in Cumbria]

Re: Front Wing Height on hybrid chassis

Yep! ROFL

[b_caswell]

Re: Front Wing Height on hybrid chassis

The hybrid chassis run flat to the front and then turns up to the bumper bar on the Marina chassis it slopes up from the A post and goes straight at the front to the bumper SO in the end the bumper and nose cone end up at the same height and position on both chassis. The nose cone should fit either car.

[Robert in Cumbria]

Re: Front Wing Height on hybrid chassis

I clamped a straight edge to my chassis upside down this morning, I set it dead level, resting on the part of the chassis just in front of the 'A' posts. There is a distinct curve over the 1800mm of the straight edge. At each end there is about 10 to 12mm gap. This was the case when I got the chassis, before I cut or welded anything on it. Although I checked it, I just didn't bother photographing it. Image below.

The 'A' posts were almost vertical and there is no twist whatever to the chassis.

Marlin Chassis curve.jpg

The day has gone well although bodybuilding in a gale has little to recommend it! The wings took flight twice...

I have established the locations for all the front panels. The nose cone is two inches too high, so I will cut it at the bottom of the sides and insert two inches of fibreglass to allow the bottom to sit where it should be.

I have fitted the original Marina Marlin tub and rear wings, both the lower engine bay sides and the first wing at the o/s. Slightly surprisingly some of the rear tub holes align reasonably well.

I have rescued the hockey stick brackets from the original Marlin, they are a bit rusty but not too bad. I can see ways of fitting them so they support the front of the wings firmly. My understanding of the front body layout is improving, slowly!

I have devised a way of utilising the old transmission tunnel sides to fill the gap at the bottom of the engine bay sides and make the top half removable to ease access to the engine bay.

It looks a bit rough at the moment but a coat of paint will make all the difference, it will look good one day. (On a dark night from the back of a galloping horse!)

Marlin first wing fitted.jpg

[Mike]

Re: Front Wing Height on hybrid chassis

Robert

Your Roadster will certainly be unique!
I'm curious though, why have you raised the windscreen, and entire bonnet line by 2-4"?

Are you going to fit opening doors? - perhaps its just the angle of the photo, but will they catch on the wing if you do?
Mike

[b_caswell]

Re: Front Wing Height on hybrid chassis

"".
Strange that
As there is no twist one must assume the chassis was built like that BUT Both my hybrid and my sons Mk1 appear to be flat along with the drawings in the build manual.

[Robert in Cumbria]

Re: Front Wing Height on hybrid chassis

Mike,

I suppose it is because I was brought up with large open cars, mainly Alvis's since as early as I can remember. My first car was an Austin 7 which I bought for £7-10 shillings. I had the body off it that evening and created my own open body, that was while I was still at school, about 15 years old.

I have driven Land Rovers, excavators, bulldozers and all sorts of big off road machines all my life. I like the idea of the Marlin and helped my friend build this one back in '82. Since I am now retired, I longed for some outlet for my pent up creative energies, creating cars and machinery has always been my forte, so when my friend offered to give me his old derelict Marlin I was overjoyed. While I have been dismantling it I have recognised many of the parts I fitted when he built it.

However... Having followed the Lands End trial for years, I have noticed the Marlins are very low and the crew are almost sat on the ground. My experience has always been with a high driving position and an upright vehicle. Low and sleek is fine on a race track or even rallying but in my opinion off roading is better done from a higher vantage point.

So from that standpoint and having ridden in one of Lee's Roadsters which confirmed the feeling I had, I determined to raise the floor by at least four and eventually six inches. Raising the floor by six inches leaves one peering OVER the windscreen and frankly looks silly! So the obvious solution (to me) was to raise the 'A' posts by six inches too. Another feature which I wanted to change was the shallow windscreen. The happy accident from all the height changes has been that the bonnet line is now two inches lower than before relative to the windscreen, so I get a windscreen effectively two inches higher/deeper.

I suppose you could sum it up by saying the floor is six inches higher, the engine is about three inches higher, the bonnet is four inches higher and the top of the windscreen is six inches higher. For now the back tub and the wings are unchanged relative to the chassis/ground. It will have a flat floor full width of the seating area, with a footwell for the driver, allowing un-moddified Marina pedal length, so retaining the original leverage. Raising the bulkhead has allowed me to run the steering column under, rather than over the pedal box as is more normal in production cars and improves access to the engine bay parts.

I plan to make new, taller doors, not sure how yet! the sill for the doorway will be about two inches above the running board. I plan to make the threshold from stainless steel folded into a square Z section which will be visible below the bottom of the door and will continue down behind the running board and will be secured by the same bolts. I am leaving two inches clearance to allow for the possibility of fitting ribs to the running board. I also want to somehow etch the Marlin logo into the stainless sill so that when you open the door it's on the middle, flat section of the folds, perhaps in an oval? Either with an acid etch process or perhaps sandblasting.

One, now amusing incident I recall from one of my first 'road' rallies in the early eighties, was at a place called Haylots, an unsurfaced road section near Lancaster. My novice navigator directed me along a very muddy section, I knew we were right because there were numerous other cars trying to go the same way, some giving up and retreating... Not to be beaten and in my element I got far further than any of them, then realised it was the wrong route, a dead end!!! By then the others had long gone and we were well stuck! It took the rest of the night to recover the car and we were very muddy. Another lesson learnt.

[Robert in Cumbria]

Re: Front Wing Height on hybrid chassis

"".
Strange that
As there is no twist one must assume the chassis was built like that BUT Both my hybrid and my sons Mk1 appear to be flat along with the drawings in the build manual.

I put it down to weld distortion which was why I checked before I touched it. If you notice, where the Ford chassis mounting was, just to the left of where my 'A' Series mounting now is, is where the front part of the chassis bends, yet the welds were c**p, little, if any penetration. Unless there had been other brackets heavily welded there previously?

Since it only looses about half an inch ground clearance at the centre of the wheelbase, I have decided to leave it because trying to straighten it could end up twisting the chassis and in any case my equipment would be challenged trying to bend a three inch tube straight. I have considered cutting and welding but that is also risky.

Have you actually held a straightedge on the underside of the chassis? If not would you consider trying it please? It would be interesting to know... Although not critical!

When I next visit the Marina chassis I will make a similar image just to compare the two.

[Mike]

Re: Front Wing Height on hybrid chassis

Mike,

.....................I also want to somehow etch the Marlin logo into the stainless sill so that when you open the door it's on the middle, flat section of the folds, perhaps in an oval? Either with an acid etch process or perhaps sandblasting.

Robert

There is a company on ebay, who will etch the Marlin name onto stainless - Jason Cundall has used them, so they have the art work done already.
Tel : 01205 723003
Ask for Steve - the owner.

Mike

[danny_nelson]

Re: Front Wing Height on hybrid chassis

Just an observation, Should not the wing height be determined by the road wheel/ suspension travel etc etc? When I built my first Marlin I positioned my wings on a rolling chassis.
Danny.

[Robert in Cumbria]

Re: Front Wing Height on hybrid chassis

Just an observation, Should not the wing height be determined by the road wheel/ suspension travel etc etc? When I built my first Marlin I positioned my wings on a rolling chassis.
Danny.

Good point Danny, that was what I asked for at the beginning of this thread, but good old British compromise seems to have won the day. Effectively I think I am there. The inner wing at the front is just resting on the bumper, the back wing is, I think, in it's standard position. While I want the wings and running board reasonably low, a good ground clearance could be an advantage. In a way I think the issue solved itself. My greatest concern was based around the mounting of the nose cone and how everything fitted in with that.

A fine forecast for tomorrow, so should get both wings fully fitted and the nose cone ready to fibreglass.

[Robert in Cumbria]

Re: Front Wing Height on hybrid chassis

Robert

There is a company on ebay, who will etch the Marlin name onto stainless - Jason Cundall has used them, so they have the art work done already.
Tel : 01205 723003
Ask for Steve - the owner.

Mike

Mike, Do you have an eMail address, I rang them this morning and asked for Steve, while she agreed Steve was the person to deal with my enquiry Lisa continued to handle my call. She gave me their eMail address but it was so muddled and Lisa was very hard to understand, I tried to send an eMail but it bounced. The addy I tried was: [email protected] I have just tried: [email protected] will see if that bounces too. Yes it bounced...



I think I got it!!! [email protected] Not bounced yet...