Fuel

[fredsajs]

I would like to comment on an item in a past club monthly book, but unable to relocate artical.

The artical recommend usage of types of fuel.

I am lucky to have many varied fuel supplirers close to my door, but NOT a BP !.

Last month I located a BP forcourt and thought I will try articals recommendation of top grade BP fuel in my Pinto, Which has fast road cam, electronic ignition, but single carb on full manufactor air filter.

Well 6 weeks later and three fills and I am amased at differance to engine. Tickover is a lot smoother, pick up is quicker will a real feel and exahaust note rearly crackley. Comsuption is around 27 mpg, only litre price is 10p dearer. But what a diferance 10p makes.

I cannot say I have noticed between other fuels appart from Superstores is a waste of money, lumpy running about 20mpg, Esso evaporites like water , esspesially in tempory off road use car, but returns 22/25 and its lumpy .

I hope this gets to articals notifirer, if it does !, Thankyou from Berly and me .

[CompoSimmonite]

Re: Fuell

My Smart Fortwo is a twin plugged turbo intercooled 700cc 3 cylinder. On Super Unleaded it runs smoother and gets a little more miles to the gallon. From what I've read the Super Unleaded needs modified or high spec engines to see the benefit. In a "bog standard" / "cooking" engine there is little benefit.

Paul H

[Dane_Rescueman]

Re: Fuell

There is an advantage to using these premium fuels even in a bog standard older engine. If you don't use your car much then the standard E10 petrol can separate and suffer condensation. This can produce acids that corrode steel, copper and others. The fuel also attacks older rubbers in seals, pipes and pumps. The premium fuel either has less ethanol or its numerous extra additives prevent the rapid deterioration present in ordinary fuel. "experts" say that standard E10 petrol should be used within six weeks to avoid trouble. Various classic car club sites have reams of reports about the "new" E10 petrol.

[CompoSimmonite]

Re: Fuell

My motorbike (1979 Honda CB400A Hondamatic) refuses to start if the fuel isn't fresh. Might try the super unleaded then. There again it's been off the road 12 years due to my health

Paul h

[davidmartin720]

Re: Fuell

Interesting reading about the need for fresh petrol. Last year we started a Roadster with a Pinto engine that had been stood for at least 5 years. Admitted we used "Easy Start" to start, but then it ran on the old fuel in the tank. David.

[Dane_Rescueman]

Re: Fuell

Hi David. The fuel wouldn't be grade "A" after all that time but as it would probably not even be E5 then the deterioration would not be so severe. The E10 fuel was only foisted upon us this year after an EU directive, The Pintos are great cast iron lumps, I love them. Mine is the short lived EFi version which would suffer deteriorated injector seals if I didn't run fresh fuel through it from time to time. Pintos will run forever on low grade fuel but can suffer from wear. I reckon that if the car was filled up today on E10 petrol and not touched for six years it would not run when tried. However, the fuel tank and pipery would have been corroded rotten in that time (a side effect of ageing E10 petrol) so the contents of the tank could easily have disappeared!! Nice to hear that the motor is running OK.

As an aside, I have several Briggs and Stratton powered horticultural tools and generators. B&S are adamant that fuel is not left in the tanks for more that one month (although we all know that they will run on anything if one perseveres!!).

[dave_kitson]

Re: Fuell

Hi -According to an article in Advanced Motoring (The Magazine For The Institute Of Advanced Motorists) Spring 2014 (ie latest issue), no one is selling E10 in the UK yet, though it will appear soon. When it does appear, it will have to be labelled clearly as such. E5 will continue to be available, although in the long term this is likely to be in the form of the advanced fuels. Since 2010, all petrol in the UK has contained up to 5% bioethanol, designated E5.

I remember when leaded petrol was removed in 2000, there was a lot of concern that unleaded petrol would have serious consequences for older & classic cars. Indeed in some countries where there was a high proportion of old cars, eg New Zealand, there were reports of more car fires. However I have not been aware of such increases here since 2000.

Perhaps the best course of action, if your kit was built before say 1990, would be to replace all the rubber and plastic pipes anyway, as they must be getting tired whatever fuel has been going through them. Admittedly this is only part of the problem/solution, as you may also need to consider the seals, etc in the carbs. It's a start though.
Dave

[ggrum]

Re: Fuell

See article on ethanol in petrol in Issue 179 (Dec 2013-Jan 04) of Pitstop - Ed

[djj_engineer]

Re: Fuell

Just refilled the lawn mower and it would not run again!
I stripped the carb down and found a jelly like substance in the float chamber.
Cleaned it out and tried new petrol just bought, result it now runs ok.
I guess I will put the 'strange' petrol in my tractor which seems to burn anything you can set fire too!!!!

[Dane_Rescueman]

Re: Fuell

Just a reminder for us all with the older engines and fuel systems. Pump unleaded will change at the start of September to be fully E10 grade. This can cause corrosion in some alloys and copper parts and rot non compatible rubber hoses. This becomes apparent when the fuel is left for a period in the fuel tank and system. I already use the "super" blends to avoid this due to the pitfalls of using E10 in my car. in most of the country the Super fuel contains no Ethanol. However, here in Cornwall even the super fuel is E5.
There are some additives available to ward of the acid corrosion snags experienced with keeping E10 in the tank for a long period. Good luck all.

[ggrum]

Re: Fuell

As I understand it the 'super' grade will generally be E5 (5% Ethanol) instead of what will be the standard E10 (10%) and will be available for a further 5 years beyond this September. As Dane mentions there are additives available to reduce the impact of Ethanol in older engines. I plan to put an article in issue 225 of Pitstop highlighting some of the potential problems which, unfortunately, won't be out until around mid October shortly after the change is made. Perhaps I'll put a summary here on the forum before then.

[ggrum]

Re: Fuell

Forgot to mention that there is an article on the impact of Ethanol in petrol in Pitstop issue 179 way back in 2013 which is worth a read. Old copies can be found on the forum under 'Pitstop Magazines'

[HairyDave]

Re: Fuell

The ESSO station on the A1 north of Stamford was selling E10 in late july.

[ggrum]

Re: Fuell

Below is an extract from an article that I plan to put in the next Pitstop magazine (not the one due out over the next week or two but the following one)

E10 fuel will be replacing the standard 95 octane unleaded petrol on forecourts starting in September of this year. In fact it’s already on some forecourts. This fuel has 10% Ethanol as opposed to the 5% currently used. The advantage of Ethanol in the petrol is that less CO2 is produced and therefore is a bit ‘greener’. The disadvantage is that Ethanol does not have the same calorific value or energy content as pure petrol so economy and power output will be slightly reduced although not noticeably for normal driving.

The vast majority of cars on the road can use E10 petrol and all built since 2011 are compatible. The vehicles that may not be compatible are old, classic cars and even some newer models from the early 2000s. If you use E10 fuel in these cars they will still run ok but over time some materials used in the fuel system will degrade.

Ethanol is hygroscopic meaning that it absorbs moisture from the air which can cause problems of corrosion in older cars that do not use a closed loop fuel system such as a carburettor set up. Ethanol is also a solvent and will eventually attack certain rubbers, plastics and even fibre glass. According to the Department for Transport (DfT) the potential issues include the following:

• Blocked fuel filters from dislodged deposits elsewhere in the system
• Damaged fuel pumps
• Degradation of flexible fuel hoses
• Corroded carburettors
• Deterioration of some seals and gaskets
• Degradation of solder joints, eg soldered floats in carburettor float chambers

Apparently the E5 fuel should still be available on most garage forecourts for a further 5 years but only with the ‘super’ 97 or 99 octane fuel. Although this is more expensive than the 95 octane petrol most classic and kit cars do such low mileage the cost impact should be minimal. From what I understand running your car on 99 octane or ‘super unleaded’ petrol will not damage your engine and potentially offers improved lubrication, cleaning action and performance. It’s certainly worth using on tuned engines with a high compression ratio to reduce the chance of ‘knocking’.
If you do not want to run your car on the E5 97 octane fuel there are various additives that are available as listed below:

• Castrol Classic Valvemaster which is a lead replacement additive but also contains an ethanol stabiliser which can help prevent corrosion

• Millers Ethanol Protection Additive

• Lucas Oil Ethanol Fuel Conditioner

I have no personal experience of using any of these so not in a position to recommend or otherwise.