MAZDA MX5 1.6cc or 1.8cc engine and gearbox into MKII Roadster?

[Waterscumbietoo]

Brethren,

Working my way through Choices and Options to replace Leyland B series 18cc Marina engine & gearbox. Originally was going for a DIY refurbish or an exchange unit. But having got prices and the fact that I would still need to source all the ancillaries (flywheel & ring gear, entire clutch housing, starter, alternator, distributor, manifold, carbs, exhaust, all harnesses) it was a high price and effort for a unit that would still at best only do 25-30 mpg and cost me upwards of £1,200 to £1,600 at minimum. Same for the 1275cc engine/gearbox combo in terms of cost and availability.

Also looked at the ford zetec conversion to RWD but a bit too much cash, and time/effort, I also have motorbikes that need care and feeding, and riding!

Have seen entire (including all ancillaries) Mazda MX5 1.8cc engine & gearbox with ECU for circa £200 plus delivery on EBay. There are a few actually.

1. Has anyone fitted one of these into a MKII Roadster?

2. Any major considerations?

3. Is this a really bad idea?

4. Any other engine/gearbox combos that have already been fitted (exclude Triumph or any other Leyland options)?

Thanking all in advance for their views and advice.

avid

[stevejgreen]

Re: MAZDA MX5 1.6cc or 1.8cc engine and gearbox into MKII Roadster?

It should be possible. The Mazda engine air box may be a problem but with no bonnet as yet a custom one might be easier and cheaper than fabricating an air box. Not sure how different the heights are between a 1.6 and a 1.8 but there are several different engine power outputs and the higher powered 1.6 might be better in terms of space than a 1.8.
the obvious questions of cooling, steering and exhaust will need to be answered, but Westfield apparently fit one in without too many challenges.
it would be interesting to follow the project.

[listerjp2]

Re: MAZDA MX5 1.6cc or 1.8cc engine and gearbox into MKII Roadster?

A little while ago Lee Hunter was looking at doing this.

I know he keeps an eye on the forum, hopefully he will respond with some words of wisdom.

Adrian

Brethren,

Working my way through Choices and Options to replace Leyland B series 18cc Marina engine & gearbox. Originally was going for a DIY refurbish or an exchange unit. But having got prices and the fact that I would still need to source all the ancillaries (flywheel & ring gear, entire clutch housing, starter, alternator, distributor, manifold, carbs, exhaust, all harnesses) it was a high price and effort for a unit that would still at best only do 25-30 mpg and cost me upwards of £1,200 to £1,600 at minimum. Same for the 1275cc engine/gearbox combo in terms of cost and availability.

Also looked at the ford zetec conversion to RWD but a bit too much cash, and time/effort, I also have motorbikes that need care and feeding, and riding!

Have seen entire (including all ancillaries) Mazda MX5 1.8cc engine & gearbox with ECU for circa £200 plus delivery on EBay. There are a few actually.

1. Has anyone fitted one of these into a MKII Roadster?

2. Any major considerations?

3. Is this a really bad idea?

4. Any other engine/gearbox combos that have already been fitted (exclude Triumph or any other Leyland options)?

Thanking all in advance for their views and advice.

avid

[jon_cox]

Re: MAZDA MX5 1.6cc or 1.8cc engine and gearbox into MKII Roadster?

Hi David.
Firstly, welcome back to Marlin ownership. Would love to know the "true" story behind the disappearance and then reappearance of your car.
Secondly, have you considered Fiat Twin Cam. Relatively easy to fit. I have one in mine in 1.8l guise and it makes the Roadster fly.
Thirdly, never being able to sit still for long means that I have also considered alternatives. The MX5 being the most obvious cost effective route. But before we get to this there are others. So, mostly due to the location of the steering column / shaft you need an engine with the induction on the passenger side. Those that have this are:
1. Ford Duratec - Well known choice by Caterham / Westfield etc.. - Expensive
2. Mazda MX5 MK3. Basically a Ford Duratec as above but already with RWD. - Expensive (does come with 6 speed box option)
3. Ford Zetec SE (Sigma) - Well known choice by Caterham / Westfield etc. - Expensive. The Sigma engine was actually designed by Yamaha so does not share any Ford bolt patterns.
4. Honda S2000 - Already RWD but very expensive and probably too powerful for the Roadster at 240BHP as standard.
5. Ford Cosworth (non turbo model) - Very expensive and like hens teeth.
6. There are some VW engines and www.rwdmotorsport.com supply bellhousings. - Expensive.

So, due to cost mostly, we are back to the early MX5.
The biggest problem I foresee is the clearance of the intake system with the brake servo and the relocation of the steering shaft.
The 1.8 is slightly bigger that the 1.6. The mk1 1.6 came with the large and outdated flappy MAF whilst the 1.8 has a hotwire version which is much smaller and therefore easier to package under the Roadster bonnet. The later MK2 1.6 was given the later type but unfortunately this does not work with the earlier mk1 engine and the later 1.6 was detuned to 90bhp rather than the original 115bhp. The later mk2 1.8 came with VVT which made it 146bhp. The VVT system does however add to the overall length of the engine.
There is a 6 speed gearbox that was fitted to the "sport" version which will work on the earlier mk1 engine.
There is also a conversion to the position of the thermostat housing that some people report to be necessary to cure a hot spot at the back of the block that is caused if the heater system is by-passed.
Later engines came with individual coil packs rather than the single pack bolted to the back of the cylinder head. Means better clearance but it is widely reported that this is a weakness and there is an easy conversion to return these later engines back to the original design.
You will need to think about fuelling if you are going fuel injection. You will either need to replace your fuel tank with a custom made one with proper sump and baffles or use a swirl pot in the engine bay and then plumb in a fuel return line back to the escort tank somehow.
Exhaust is passenger side so no issues there with using existing Marlin silencer and bracket but you will need to fabricate a down pipe of your own design to connect them. Not sure about a CAT though. Not researched this far. 1.8 has a twin pipe design manifold and the 1.6 has a single which would be easier to connect.
Other than that, make sure that whatever you buy comes with a matching ECU, Key, ignition barrel (transponder receiver is built into this) and immobiliser module.
Speedo is cable driven so you will need to connect this to existing and most likely have it recalibrated.
So, in conclusion, I would say go for it. Easiest option is probably a mk1 1.6 and find a creative way to mount the MAF.

[Waterscumbietoo]

Re: MAZDA MX5 1.6cc or 1.8cc engine and gearbox into MKII Roadster?

Wow. Thanks Jon for your responses. The Mazda MX5 1.6i and gearbox were my first choice, but given your excellent comments (all addressable) it is now my Plan B.

Would like to know more about your Fiat 1.8L Twin Cam installation. Would love to have a look at your set-up 'in the flesh' so to speak. What gear box are you running with the Fiat engine?

Are you bringing your car to Stoneleigh (sp?) this year?

As a start, if you could, please mail me a few pictures of your engine bay set up.

Any pointers/things to look out for when looking for/purchasing the Alpha engine and gearbox combo?

Just got back from a four hour round trip to collect half a bonnet and a few other invaluable items, kindly given to me by Brian Gadd So very pleased!

avid - [email protected]

[ggrum]

Re: MAZDA MX5 1.6cc or 1.8cc engine and gearbox into MKII Roadster?

When I replaced the 'A' series engine in my Roadster with an Alfa DOHC I realised that the intermediate steering column would foul the twin Dellorto side draughts on the off side so I replaced the original horizontal Marina column with one from a Ford Capri which is long enough to be angled down to exit through a hole in the brake/clutch pedal box casting. A new intermediate shaft was fitted which angled up slightly to meet the rack and clear the carbs. The added bonus is that the steering wheel is at a much more comfortable angle than on the standard Marina based car.

[Waterscumbietoo]

Re: MAZDA MX5 1.6cc or 1.8cc engine and gearbox into MKII Roadster?

When I replaced the 'A' series engine in my Roadster with an Alfa DOHC I realised that the intermediate steering column would foul the twin Dellorto side draughts on the off side so I replaced the original horizontal Marina column with one from a Ford Capri which is long enough to be angled down to exit through a hole in the brake/clutch pedal box casting. A new intermediate shaft was fitted which angled up slightly to meet the rack and clear the carbs. The added bonus is that the steering wheel is at a much more comfortable angle than on the standard Marina based car.

Good info!!

Could you send a few photos?

Many Thanks,

avid [email protected]

[Waterscumbietoo]

Re: MAZDA MX5 1.6cc or 1.8cc engine and gearbox into MKII Roadster?

"Would love to know the "true" story behind the disappearance and then reappearance of your car"

If you are all sitting comfortably, I'll begin...... "The case of The Missing Marlin":

HISTORY: - One sunny morning in 2008, went round to the chap I left the car with in 2007 (I needed room in my garage for another motorbike and he had a large garage with loads of room), to find his house locked up and that he had 'gone away' - with no forwarding address. He was quite ill (cancer of the spine), had not been working for a while, with a mortgage and an alcoholic wife who used drink then jump on a train and pass out till guards found her and called the police to fetch her back home (sometimes four counties away). I suspect his daughter took over at some point, sold the house and took him and his wife away. The trail went cold - and I did not want to report the car stolen at the time, as my friend had enough trouble on his plate. I tried speaking to the neighbours but no one knew anything. Trail was cold. Eventually I became resigned to loosing my car and all the investment in it, and decided to play with motorbikes instead, which I still do.

NOW: Then on Christmas Eve 2014: - Got a letter from the DVLA (dated 19th Dec 14) stating that someone has requested to register MY CAR in their name!! Rang the DVLA who would not give me the name of the person or their address (data protection bulls....), and said they would continue with the request from the other person to register MY CAR under their name!!! Unless I reported the car as stolen (which is going to be bad news for the person I left the car with to look after all those years ago - who I suspected by now was either very sick, or dead, and someone was selling off his belongings). So I went down to the Police station and was pointed to a phone to make a call, where I had to explain why I waited seven years to report the car as stolen.

Eventually a very large but friendly 'Officer of Der Law' called by and finally issued me with my "OCC Number" / Crime Number. Armed with this I contacted the DVLA on Monday 5th Jan 2015, and asked them to give me the details of the person who is attempting to register MY Car in their name! DVLA confirmed that the application to transfer MY CAR to someone else had now been suspended, and the case is under investigation, but warned me "these things can take a long while, so do not expect to hear anything soon"., "You can check with us in a months time if you like". So I asked them what the 'investigation' would consist of. And was told "we cannot discuss any aspect of an on-going investigation with you, we have your contact details, and will be in touch when we need to". I then informed my Police officer and he tried, but the DVLA would not pass any details to him either. Apparently there in a 'middle man' - the 'DVLA Liaison Officer' who was waiting for an official e-mail from the DVLA to inform the Police that the car has been reported as 'stolen' and needs to be investigated. This was then passed by my 'DVLA Liaison Officer' to another department of the Police who deal with stolen cars. So after many phone calls, emails and finally letters, I was told that my case was being investigated.

Finally I got a call on Sunday 2nd Feb from the Police to say, they had recovered my car (what there was of it) and I could go the depot, pay £150.00 and another £80.00 to have it delivered to my home. Which is when I joined the MOC and posted my details.

I was never told by the Police or the DVLA who they recovered the car from, as I was keen to understand where the rest of my car was!! Turns out the person that had it, bought it for £100.00 (one hundred!) from a garage clearance company, and what I got back was all that was left.

Cannot be too upset, because if it was not for that person's attempt to register the car in their name, I would never have got it back.

So onwards and upwards (or slowly sideways, depending on your point of view)

So far, thanks to the great bunch in the MOC, I have had access to a huge amount of information and parts, met very helpful, positive and generous folk and have an excuse to buy all the tools I could never afford way back in the late 80s

So now you know.....

avid



11 January at 11:27 · Edited · Like · 2

[jon_cox]

Re: MAZDA MX5 1.6cc or 1.8cc engine and gearbox into MKII Roadster?

Wow. What an amazing story. Total respect to you for putting your friend first over the car. That shows your true character.

The Fiat twin cam is a great engine but they are getting harder to find in good condition and the cost of reconditioning is high due to the scarcity of some parts which is why I have been looking for alternatives as the bottom end on mine is starting to knock and the head gasket is on the way out.
Also. I converted mine back in 2001 from a 1.3 A series installation and I had to widen the tunnel. Not by much but it did require new floors and tunnel top (front section only).
I have the gearbox with the Abarth extension which puts the gear lever in a nice position. There is currently a perfect engine on ebay but it does state that it needs a rebuild.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fiat-131-132-Twin-Cam-Engine-Box-Abarth-Morris-Minor-Kit-Rally-Sprint-Sunbeam-/121578236925?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1c4ea0abfd

$_57.JPG

Have you considered the Ford Pinto engine. This is another tried and tested route for the Roadster and is still relatively cheap and easy to install.

I will try to take some pictures of my install. The twin cam responds well to a change of carb. I did have twin IDF's on mine that gave the engine 125bhp which was amazing for a 1.8 fairly standard engine. They were a pig to keep in tune though so swapped them for a Weber DGAV (recommended by Guy Croft the Twin Cam wizard) which has been an excellent decision.

[Waterscumbietoo]

Re: MAZDA MX5 1.6cc or 1.8cc engine and gearbox into MKII Roadster?

Hi Jon,

Also been told the same thing about the Alpha engines by a mate of my mine who works for a Garage, so still doing homework on the MX5 route. WIll look into the Ford Pinto with RWD gearbox as well.

avid

[Waterscumbietoo]

Re: MAZDA MX5 1.6cc or 1.8cc engine and gearbox into MKII Roadster?

OK, pulled the trigger and bought a beautiful 1998 1.6i MX5 which was going to be my 'donor car' for engine/gearbox and all necessary ancillary components.

However the family (and must admit myself as well) have decided to address the items that need to be refurbished (new hood, maybe tyres, some rust on the arches - nothing major - engine and gearbox nice and tight, oil the colour of golden syrup, no smoke from the exhaust, has new clutch, and master and slave cylinders). Will keep it as a fully taxed and insured family pet and be used as the "Reference Car". So trolling for another 1.6i Engine/Gearbox plus necessary ancillaries to transplant into the Roadster.

Let the Games Begin!

avid

[Waterscumbietoo]

Re: MAZDA MX5 1.6cc or 1.8cc engine and gearbox into MKII Roadster?

Road closed - New mission in new thread