The oddities of Q733JKO

[David]

As I work through the 'new' acquisition I'm finding some odd things under the bonnet, comparing the current layout to the build photo's here;

http://www.marlinownersclub.com/foru...8&d=1425808124

I see the radiator has changed, the give-away being the top hose being on the other side of the cylinder head, and what's that blue pipe and valve for, bleeding off air?

http://www.marlinownersclub.com/foru...5&d=1425807965

Staying with the cooling system I'm not sure that plumbing an expansion tank into the heater hoses is a brilliant idea, any views on this?

http://www.marlinownersclub.com/foru...6&d=1425807978

Finally, for now, whilst the engine number is Triumph Vitesse (HC 52080 HE) the timing chain cover and crankshaft pulley appear to be from a Triumph 2000/2500. I thought that may explain why the previous owner thought it was a 2300cc, and in fact it was a Triumph 2500 engine, but the engine number discounts that.

http://www.marlinownersclub.com/foru...7&d=1425807993

On the latter item I will have to trawl through the folder full of parts receipts and build notes, maybe the engine was a bitsa' built up from spares.

thats all for now.

[lil_red_roadster]

Re: The oddities of Q733JKO

David
Looks like the "expansion" tank is actually a header tank.
If you want to map your plumbing to the diagram on pg 349 of the latest Car Builder Solutions catalogue you can get a feel for whether its correct.
I'd have expected a blanking cap on the rad (which looks like a Mini item..!) and a hose back from the rad overflow to the header.
Jez

[b_caswell]

Re: The oddities of Q733JKO

Hi David
It looks like this project is going to keep you busy !
Agree with Jez the rad looks very much like a mini item certainly not big enough for the six.
The blue pipe with the bleeder is not a bad idea but the expansion tank arrangement isnt in my opinion helping anything and it is probably interfereing with the return feed to the water pump. Also not sure how the system gets on with having two pressure caps one on the rad and another on the expansion tank??

With regards the engine capacity it is in theory possible to make a 2ltr Vitesse engine into a 2.5, the crank has a longer throw and different pistons but the head would also need some work or changing. Easiest way to tell is to take out a sparking plug and using a piece of wire rotate the crank and measure the stroke which would be 76mm for 2ltr and 95mm for a 2.5.
Also the sump would need to have been either modified to clear the crank at the shallow end or changed to the bigger engine sump pan which hasnt got the recess for clearing the steernig rack on the Vitesse.
I cant work out from the last picture whats in front of the pully but the pulley looks like a Vitesse one as the big saloons had a heavier pully and damper to counter the heavy flywheel.

[David]

Re: The oddities of Q733JKO

Hi David
It looks like this project is going to keep you busy !
Agree with Jez the rad looks very much like a mini item certainly not big enough for the six.
The blue pipe with the bleeder is not a bad idea but the expansion tank arrangement isnt in my opinion helping anything and it is probably interfereing with the return feed to the water pump. Also not sure how the system gets on with having two pressure caps one on the rad and another on the expansion tank??

With regards the engine capacity it is in theory possible to make a 2ltr Vitesse engine into a 2.5, the crank has a longer throw and different pistons but the head would also need some work or changing. Easiest way to tell is to take out a sparking plug and using a piece of wire rotate the crank and measure the stroke which would be 76mm for 2ltr and 95mm for a 2.5.
Also the sump would need to have been either modified to clear the crank at the shallow end or changed to the bigger engine sump pan which hasnt got the recess for clearing the steernig rack on the Vitesse.
I cant work out from the last picture whats in front of the pully but the pulley looks like a Vitesse one as the big saloons had a heavier pully and damper to counter the heavy flywheel.

The photo is shortening the height, the radiator actually looks as tall as a GT6 item but the header should have a pipe on it. Will investigate more.
I agree on the header tank and water pump, can't be good for the heater either! I'm wondering if the engine will be just fine if I remove that plastic tank and use a regular Vitesse bottle off the pipe from the cap neck on the radiator. Car seems to run fine and within temperature although until a get a graduated water temp gauge I can't be sure.

Seems like a lot of work to get a Vitesse to 2.5ltr when a 2500 engine is probably easy to get hold of, or at least was 20 years ago. Did the MK2 Vitesse timing chain cover have the timing pointer as in the pic? From the manuals I have that looks to be a Triumph 2000/2500 cover not Vitesse.

Finally, you were correct, I have blown the Powerspark module after powering it up in reverse polarity. The coil was wired back to front, should have checked first. New Powerspark on order.

[b_caswell]

Re: The oddities of Q733JKO

Cant place that rad then but interesting way of mounting it !!

My car runs a Vitesse radiator and mechanical fan with just an expansion bottle. Towing the camper in very hot weather only causes concern when the motorway grinds to a halt.
As far as I know all the six's had that type of timing pointer. I have a modified(to fit) 2ltr saloon engine in my car and two other engines in the workshop one Mk1 and a mk2 all have the same pointer but not the graduations on the pulley.

Bad luck on the powerspark I assume its not repairable. Also presume the car is wired negative earth ?? Not positive earth.

[David]

Re: The oddities of Q733JKO

I'll get the car running well and then remove the header tank, run it up to temperature and then round the block to see what happens, may get a proper temperature gauge installed first.

No the Powerspark is dead. Yes definitely negative earth, have followed the negative lead from the battery to a distribution block on the bulkhead and then to an earth strap to the engine block. To double check, the battery positive lead goes to the starter solenoid. #paranoid

[David]

Re: The oddities of Q733JKO

Agree with Jez the rad looks very much like a mini item certainly not big enough for the six.

The radiator core is about 30cm wide and 40cm deep/long. The 'top tank' is flat, the classic Mini rads look to have an angled top, so a bit baffled as to the source vehicle!

Maybe I should go for this...

http://www.carbuildersolutions.com/u...-360mm-x-460mm

[cameronfurnival]

Re: The oddities of Q733JKO

radiator possibly austin 1800?

[David]

Re: The oddities of Q733JKO

radiator possibly austin 1800?

Possibly, I need to change it anyway as both the top and bottom inlet/outlets are on the wrong side resulting in that thermostat housing reversal and a very dodgy looking flex' type hose looping under the front of the engine to get to the bottom hose connection. All very dodgy looking.

What's the current 'best practice' thinking on radiators for MK2's with a Triumph 6 in them?

The obvious one is a GT6 radiator as that looks to be narrower than a Vitesse but does it fit, I'll have to try and find the dimensions. I wonder if I can get a GT6 rad modified to take the Vitesse 6 remote header tank.

[b_caswell]

Re: The oddities of Q733JKO

The CBS rad looks like a good option as long as you can get it to fit. Rimmers do a GT6 rad outright price steel £250 alloy over £500 phew.

Have seen a couple cars with the GT6 rad fitted but not sure whats favourite, mine has the Vitesse rad with the chasis monts removed and it hangs on the studs that originally held the engine side bay panels. It also has the top outlet resoldered straight so to connect the top hose. Another member has a 2.5 car with the early Vitesse 6 set up but not sure how the rad is mounted.

I think even a Triumph Dolomite rad wouldnt be too far off the mark.

It might be worth having a chat with a local radiator service to see what they suggest.Have a look at ebay item 251031139402 Brisca F2 copper 3 row this chap makes them to order there is a telephone number/

[scott h]

Re: The oddities of Q733JKO

The CBS rad looks like a good option as long as you can get it to fit. Rimmers do a GT6 rad outright price steel £250 alloy over £500 phew.

Have seen a couple cars with the GT6 rad fitted but not sure whats favourite, mine has the Vitesse rad with the chasis monts removed and it hangs on the studs that originally held the engine side bay panels. It also has the top outlet resoldered straight so to connect the top hose. Another member has a 2.5 car with the early Vitesse 6 set up but not sure how the rad is mounted.

I think even a Triumph Dolomite rad wouldnt be too far off the mark.

It might be worth having a chat with a local radiator service to see what they suggest.Have a look at ebay item 251031139402 Brisca F2 copper 3 row this chap makes them to order there is a telephone number/

I got one of these radiators from Ebay for my Berli. He can make a radiator to your design but the cost may change. Top bloke and certainly worth a phone call.

495.jpg

[David]

Re: The oddities of Q733JKO

Thanks Scott.

[David]

Re: The oddities of Q733JKO

So, an update. Been working on the car today. At some time the radiator has been changed, and it's filler cap is lower than the thermostat housing which I guess has prompted the need for the header tank so that the system can be filled properly. So I'm planning to replace the radiator with one with a 'remote filler' or expansion tank and bin the one that's plumbed into the radiator hoses.

[David]

Re: The oddities of Q733JKO

Another update. After a bit of research I think I'm going to pop this pipe/cap assembly into the top hose in place of that blue pipe and bleed valve.

http://www.carbuildersolutions.com/u...ller-neck-32mm



Use a standard Vitesse 2ltr overflow bottle or something similar off this pipe/cap piece.

Replace the filler cap on the radiator with a 'blanking' valveless type;

http://www.carbuildersolutions.com/uk/radiator-cap-valveless

Finally remove the plastic header tank that's plumed into the heater piping.

Does anyone have any thought about this, I'm hoping it will suffice until I can get a replacement radiator/expansion tank in place.

David.

[Mike]

Re: The oddities of Q733JKO

Make sure the header tank is the highest part of your coolant system, and that it is big enough to contain more than the expansion of the coolant, otherwise you will lose coolant to waste - unless you have an overflow catch vessel as well.

Water expands by around 4% between 4 degrees to 100 degrees C, so if you have 10 litres in the coolant system, the header tank needs to hold more than 0.5 litre if it is to retain some header coolant after a heat cycle.