Pinto engine alternative

[tomallen]

Hi everyone

I am going to have a look at a pinto engined berlinetta soon which needs some work to get back on the road. I was just wondering if there are any engines that are an easy swap and marry up with the gearbox. Would prefer a v6 as have always liked exhausts out both sides.

Thanks

[cameronfurnival]

Re: Pinto engine alternative

There are several options requiring various amounts of work - but if it has been done I'm sure you will soon find out - the membership on here has tried pretty much everything! However, the Pinto is capable of developing 200+ bhp so why not go down the tuning route? 140bhp is doable but moore than that costs £££s. There's a thread on here where someone has fitted a vauxhall redtop - that looks very neat - depends on how much you want to spend and how much work you want I guess. Zetec is a good option too. Personally I would stick with a pinto or maybe the ford V6 Essex...hmm
All depends on what you want to achieve and how much you want to spend.

[peterboat]

Re: Pinto engine alternative

I dont blame you for wanting to change the engine. If my 2.3 ford engine went bang I would be tempted to fit a 3 litre Jag engine and box into her. In fact i would go for a late 3 litre S Type engine with the 6 speed ZF auto box. whilst the wiring might be a bit of fun the end result would be worth the effort. As both the engine and box are alloy weight wise it wouldnt be to much of a disaster, and it would walk all over the rover engined cars as it is if I remember rightly 236 HP with good torque as well. When I had the garage we had plenty of these with 200 -300k on the clock with proper servicing perfik

[scott h]

Re: Pinto engine alternative

If you look on page 13 of the build diary highlighted by Cameron earlier you will find more info about fitting the Vauxhall red top to the Ford type 9 gearbox.

If you are looking for an easy swap then probably sticking to Ford is the way to go.

Burton Power has a lot of information about all the different Ford engines and gearboxes. If you look on their website and look at their e catalogue there is loads to read.

[tomallen]

Re: Pinto engine alternative

Thanks for the info so far everyone and i have had a trawl through the forums which has given some quite good information.

Tuning the pinto is an option but its such an old engine and to get any real power from it is expensive. The other draw to a v6 is the low down torque, so you can still get quite a move in without thrashing the engine....except of course when your really want to go then it would be a seriously quick car. Something like the BMW 330i engine would be nice but i think the work involved would be considerable and may never end up actually getting on the road!

I have quite a quick car as my daily drive so cant see the point in having a kit car which is slower than that. I reckon a naturally aspirated engine kicking out around 220hp-240hp would be about right and give pretty impressive performance.

[scott h]

Re: Pinto engine alternative

Remember things like the gearbox, rear diff, suspension and brakes will need uprating if you are going for 240hp. The danger is that if your main interest is driving it, you may become disheartened with the amount of time and money required for such a project.

[tomallen]

Re: Pinto engine alternative

Remember things like the gearbox, rear diff, suspension and brakes will need uprating if you are going for 240hp. The danger is that if your main interest is driving it, you may become disheartened with the amount of time and money required for such a project.

Yer i have been thinking about this a bit more and if it isnt more fun to drive the my daily car then it wont get driven anyway!

[Mike]

Re: Pinto engine alternative

Something like the BMW 330i engine would be nice but i think the work involved would be considerable and may never end up actually getting on the road!

I have quite a quick car as my daily drive so cant see the point in having a kit car which is slower than that. I reckon a naturally aspirated engine kicking out around 220hp-240hp would be about right and give pretty impressive performance.

The BMW 330i engine (known as an M54B30) sounds like it would be perfect for you - and it is perfectly possible to install one in a Cabrio - I have the parts assembled ready, including matching 6 speed manual box, to install over winter.

For my first engine I chose the earlier BMW M50B25TU straight 6 out of the older E36 325i, which puts out around 190HP, and 180 ft lbs torque, as the electrics were understood 10 years ago when I made my engine choice. It has made for a decent tourer, and it is certainly no slouch from the lights, but it does need to be revved to achieve it: peak torque is up at 4200rpm, but then the rev limiter soon kicks in at 6000rpm, so its quite a narrow power band.

BMW were stung by the criticism of the M50's power delivery, and improved the torque curve massively in the M54B30. It pushes out around 230HP, and a hefty 230ft lbs of torque, (an increase of nearly 30% over the M50TU) and it does so at only 3,500rpm. Even more importantly for a relaxed tourer it delivers 80% of its maximum torque at only 1500rpm - it has almost linear power from 1500rpm to 5500rpm : it really is a torque monster!

The big issue that held back this engine swap was the complexity of the ECU, however, there are some very clever and technically minded computer bods who have now deciphered the BMW codes, and made the information available on a Wiki

http://www.ms43wiki.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

so it is now a relatively straight forward exercise to be able to remove the Canbus coding to allow the engine to run in another chassis without having to talk to its own binacle, ABS, door locks, ignition lock, etc.....

For me it will be the perfect engine - loads of torque, a gorgeous 6 cylinder sound track, and modern reliable, fuel injection, giving pretty good fuel economy.
It will make the Cabrio an effortless tourer, and has some real poke if you want to have fun......

If you want an idea of how it fits in a Cabrio, have a look at my build diary :

http://www.marlinownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?4589-Mike-s-Cabrio-Build

[cameronfurnival]

Re: Pinto engine alternative

That's a good point! Maybe zetec is the way to go? the 1.8 was about 115bhp stock and the 2.0 was 125-135bhp.
However, the Cologne V6 2.9 is about 140bhp

There are examples of both about so you should find someone on here who can tell you more.

Weight may be a deciding factor...

RoverV8 comes in at 160kg
Cologne V6 138Kg
Pinto 135 kgs
Vauxhall XE 120 kgs
Zetec 115 kgs
Crossflow 110 kgs
Rover K series 100 kgs
Toyata 4-AGE 100 kgs
Duratec 97 kgs
Zetec SE ( all alloy found in the later focus & fiesta & only 1.6 & 1.25) 81 kgs

The locostbuilders forum has some excellent advice.

[andyf]

Re: Pinto engine alternative

How heavy is a Berli? I find that a standard Pinto in a Roadster is no slouch.

[Tony Stott]

Re: Pinto engine alternative

mines about a tonne! - it has a 2.0 litre lump!

[Mike]

Re: Pinto engine alternative

With a cast iron 2.5ltr BMW straight 6 in the front of my Cabrio, the weight split was 48% front : 52% rear

The M54B30 3 litre has an all alloy block and head, so weighs slightly less.
230 BHP, and voted the world's best engine for 2 years, and good for 250,000 miles if its looked after.

That's a good point! Maybe zetec is the way to go? the 1.8 was about 115bhp stock and the 2.0 was 125-135bhp.
However, the Cologne V6 2.9 is about 140bhp

There are examples of both about so you should find someone on here who can tell you more.

Weight may be a deciding factor...

RoverV8 comes in at 160kg
Cologne V6 138Kg
Pinto 135 kgs
Vauxhall XE 120 kgs
Zetec 115 kgs
Crossflow 110 kgs
Rover K series 100 kgs
Toyata 4-AGE 100 kgs
Duratec 97 kgs
Zetec SE ( all alloy found in the later focus & fiesta & only 1.6 & 1.25) 81 kgs

The locostbuilders forum has some excellent advice.

[Mike]

Re: Pinto engine alternative

Remember things like the gearbox, rear diff, suspension and brakes will need uprating if you are going for 240hp. The danger is that if your main interest is driving it, you may become disheartened with the amount of time and money required for such a project.

The standard Sierra rear suspension and diff were capable of taking around 400HP in the Cosworth, so its not a big issue. With Cosworth sized disc brakes up front, and the standard disc brakes at the rear, with the dual servo kit a lot of us have now fitted, and a well chosen set of road brake pads, you can put together a Cabrio, weighing only 930kg, giving around 250BHP/tonne performance, and the ability to stop equally well.
- how does that compare to your daily?

[tomallen]

Re: Pinto engine alternative

Just had a quick look through your build thread Mike and some really good information there, thanks for highlighting it to me.

The BMW engine would be my ideal choice but also have to be realistic about my mechanic skills and free time, I am pretty good but I think to keep project realistic would want to marry it up with a gearbox and the rear axle in a car already, or to one that is an easy replacement for what's there in the first place.

My daily drive ia nothing special, its the new Mondeo but the twin turbo diesel so 210ps and 450nm of torque, it goes pretty well and is effortless.

I would imagine the old gearbox and diffe etc are made pretty heavy duty so 200+ bhp but in a light car should be alright.

[Mike]

Re: Pinto engine alternative

Just had a quick look through your build thread Mike and some really good information there, thanks for highlighting it to me.

The BMW engine would be my ideal choice but also have to be realistic about my mechanic skills and free time, I am pretty good but I think to keep project realistic would want to marry it up with a gearbox and the rear axle in a car already, or to one that is an easy replacement for what's there in the first place.

My daily drive ia nothing special, its the new Mondeo but the twin turbo diesel so 210ps and 450nm of torque, it goes pretty well and is effortless.

I would imagine the old gearbox and diffe etc are made pretty heavy duty so 200+ bhp but in a light car should be alright.

If you use the matching BMW gearbox and clutch the engine change is just the same as for a Ford - except it's easier as the BMW bell housing is smaller than the Ford one. It's easy to have a propshaft made for a BMW gearbox and a Ford diff.

Go for it.

I will have a very good M50B25Tu with 5 speed gearbox available with propshaft if you want a drop in solution?

Where are you in the country? You are very welcome to have a go in my Cabrio if you want to get a feel of what it is like. I'm near Peterborough


ATB
Mike