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Re: Constitution update 2017
Steve,
I have considered carefully the points that you have made and will deal with them in the order that you have posted them.
To summarise your points:
1) Any voting member should be a full member
The club is operated on a not for profit basis. Our memberships pricing is set up to recover costs appropriate to that member. Partner members share the clubs facilities with their partner. The privilege to vote is very rarely available and is not a significant club benefit. Anything more than 50p would be inappropriate.
A number of “A. N. Others” make a wonderful contribution to the club and club events.
2) Voting should not be restricted to the AGM attendees
We have tried to engage people through the forums but most attempts fail to engage many members. Most of the members when asked said they enjoy the technical discussions but are disappointed by the bickering.
The web site is gaining in popularity and will continue to do so. In the year between April 2016 and April 2017 AGM to AGM that over 53% of our members signed in. About 34% made posts. Many more people browse it.
If there was anything to vote on at this year’s AGM I would have posted it here and requested members who express a preference to contact me. If there is any possibility of a vote in May 2018 I promise to do the same. I believe the last time there was a committee membership vote was 2011.
The club committee is undermanned. Several members have wanted to step aside for some years. I am only doing this because nobody else has come forward. I am not an ideal candidate. I promised to do this two years my term ends in May 2018. If nobody steps forward before May 2018 this website will close.
Furthermore, Geoff Grumble is currently both Chairman and Editor. That is an unacceptable situation. If we do not get a new committee member before the AGM it will become an EGM to wind up the club.
I repeat that any nominations for committee membership can be made at any time using any method to any committee member.
Committee members do not have to attend every meeting in person. Any nominations for any position are welcome. There is no explicit requirement to be at the AGM.
3) You would like the club’s membership to be younger
We all want that.
The carping of old men in this thread is doing nothing to aid that.
I know of no one who has been “edged out”.
4) You would like non-members to access the forums
I think you actually mean ex-members who can bring a wealth of experience to newer members. Completely open forums are available elsewhere. They are funded by advertising for profit not by members for members.
As you well know access by ex-members is controlled automatically as a side-effect of the introduction of PayPal. It was not a decision made by the committee.
5) Accepting help from people who do not attend the AGM
We accept help wherever we can get it. Any number of sterling members regularly helps the club in numerous ways. There are no prerequisites to helping the club.
We have in the past requested that you help us but you declined.
6) Allow the indiscriminate use of Marlin Owners Club name
Use of the club name and logo must only be used with clubs prior permission.
That is not because of a parochial attitude or arrogance but because unequivocal support for any use must come from the clubs members.
7) Allow unrestricted use of the clubs copyright material
The clubs materials are a membership benefit provided voluntarily for the clubs exclusive use. The club is not free to share that material outside of the membership. Members wishing uncontrolled access to their assets can use an open access website.
Tech tips CD was removed from the clubs goods because there is no demand for an item that can be downloaded for free from the member’s area. Among the benefits we list on the welcome page “huge amounts of knowledge on general kit car builds”. “Tech tips” is a part of that knowledge. It is a benefit to members.
8) Adopt an overriding philosophy, a holistic approach, to the committee decisions
The committee balances the views of as many members as possible in coming to any decisions. Naturally some will be disappointed by every decision we take. For example the committee get accused of introducing technology too quickly and not quickly enough so I think we must have the balance about right.
9) Publicise the date, place and agenda for committee meetings
This is impractical and not really necessary. If any member wishes the committee to consider any topic at any time they should contact us immediately. The committee will quite often take a decision by consultation with each other at any time.
10) Broadcast the AGM and possibly other meetings
I have looked into this in the past. It is not that easy. The AGM is effectively held in the middle of a field but I think that can be overcome. As a first step I thought we could set up a web cam so that other members could view and hear the proceedings. But it takes time, effort and money. If somebody is willing to put in the time and effort I am fairly confident that the money could be found.
Incidentally, we have used conferencing tools for committee meeting with some success. It is a fact that all committee members do not have to be physically present to “attend” a meeting.
You are not just rude but wrong to suggest that we are fuddy duddies. We use the latest technologies where and when appropriate. But we also serve the reasonable percentage of our members without emails.
Finally I would like to draw your attention to our code of conduct which under the heading misconduct lists:
You might like to consider how your posts relate to these points
You are right to say that the future of the MOC relies on keeping Marlins on the road, and attracting and retaining members. But that is the responsibility of every member of the club not just the committee.
Steve, you make such a positive contribution to these forums over 2,500 posts. I have no doubt that you will reply to this post. I doubt that your reply will be consolatory. But I ask that you live up to your “repeating mantra that the MOC needs to attract new blood, to involve them in the club. If the MOC is not seen as progressive, it will die.”
Many of the points you raise have been discussed ad nauseam. We have explained the reasons why the things you want are not appropriate. Just because the conclusions do not fit with your own agenda does not mean that this and previous committees have not considered them sympathetically.
I too end on a George Bernard Shaw quote:
I will read with interest any post wishing to contribute to the rewording of the constitution as requested in my original post.
Paul
Steve,
I have considered carefully the points that you have made and will deal with them in the order that you have posted them.
To summarise your points:
1) Any voting member should be a full member
2) Voting should not be restricted to the AGM attendees
3) You would like the club’s membership to be younger
4) You would like non-members to access the forums
5) Accepting help from people who do not attend the AGM
6) Allow the indiscriminate use of Marlin Owners Club name
7) Allow unrestricted use of the clubs copyright material
8) Adopt an overriding philosophy, a holistic approach, to the committee decisions
9) Publicise the date, place and agenda for committee meetings
10) Broadcast the AGM and possibly other meetings
2) Voting should not be restricted to the AGM attendees
3) You would like the club’s membership to be younger
4) You would like non-members to access the forums
5) Accepting help from people who do not attend the AGM
6) Allow the indiscriminate use of Marlin Owners Club name
7) Allow unrestricted use of the clubs copyright material
8) Adopt an overriding philosophy, a holistic approach, to the committee decisions
9) Publicise the date, place and agenda for committee meetings
10) Broadcast the AGM and possibly other meetings
1) Any voting member should be a full member
The club is operated on a not for profit basis. Our memberships pricing is set up to recover costs appropriate to that member. Partner members share the clubs facilities with their partner. The privilege to vote is very rarely available and is not a significant club benefit. Anything more than 50p would be inappropriate.
A number of “A. N. Others” make a wonderful contribution to the club and club events.
2) Voting should not be restricted to the AGM attendees
We have tried to engage people through the forums but most attempts fail to engage many members. Most of the members when asked said they enjoy the technical discussions but are disappointed by the bickering.
The web site is gaining in popularity and will continue to do so. In the year between April 2016 and April 2017 AGM to AGM that over 53% of our members signed in. About 34% made posts. Many more people browse it.
If there was anything to vote on at this year’s AGM I would have posted it here and requested members who express a preference to contact me. If there is any possibility of a vote in May 2018 I promise to do the same. I believe the last time there was a committee membership vote was 2011.
The club committee is undermanned. Several members have wanted to step aside for some years. I am only doing this because nobody else has come forward. I am not an ideal candidate. I promised to do this two years my term ends in May 2018. If nobody steps forward before May 2018 this website will close.
Furthermore, Geoff Grumble is currently both Chairman and Editor. That is an unacceptable situation. If we do not get a new committee member before the AGM it will become an EGM to wind up the club.
I repeat that any nominations for committee membership can be made at any time using any method to any committee member.
Committee members do not have to attend every meeting in person. Any nominations for any position are welcome. There is no explicit requirement to be at the AGM.
3) You would like the club’s membership to be younger
We all want that.
The carping of old men in this thread is doing nothing to aid that.
I know of no one who has been “edged out”.
4) You would like non-members to access the forums
I think you actually mean ex-members who can bring a wealth of experience to newer members. Completely open forums are available elsewhere. They are funded by advertising for profit not by members for members.
As you well know access by ex-members is controlled automatically as a side-effect of the introduction of PayPal. It was not a decision made by the committee.
5) Accepting help from people who do not attend the AGM
We accept help wherever we can get it. Any number of sterling members regularly helps the club in numerous ways. There are no prerequisites to helping the club.
We have in the past requested that you help us but you declined.
6) Allow the indiscriminate use of Marlin Owners Club name
Use of the club name and logo must only be used with clubs prior permission.
That is not because of a parochial attitude or arrogance but because unequivocal support for any use must come from the clubs members.
7) Allow unrestricted use of the clubs copyright material
The clubs materials are a membership benefit provided voluntarily for the clubs exclusive use. The club is not free to share that material outside of the membership. Members wishing uncontrolled access to their assets can use an open access website.
Tech tips CD was removed from the clubs goods because there is no demand for an item that can be downloaded for free from the member’s area. Among the benefits we list on the welcome page “huge amounts of knowledge on general kit car builds”. “Tech tips” is a part of that knowledge. It is a benefit to members.
8) Adopt an overriding philosophy, a holistic approach, to the committee decisions
The committee balances the views of as many members as possible in coming to any decisions. Naturally some will be disappointed by every decision we take. For example the committee get accused of introducing technology too quickly and not quickly enough so I think we must have the balance about right.
9) Publicise the date, place and agenda for committee meetings
This is impractical and not really necessary. If any member wishes the committee to consider any topic at any time they should contact us immediately. The committee will quite often take a decision by consultation with each other at any time.
10) Broadcast the AGM and possibly other meetings
I have looked into this in the past. It is not that easy. The AGM is effectively held in the middle of a field but I think that can be overcome. As a first step I thought we could set up a web cam so that other members could view and hear the proceedings. But it takes time, effort and money. If somebody is willing to put in the time and effort I am fairly confident that the money could be found.
Incidentally, we have used conferencing tools for committee meeting with some success. It is a fact that all committee members do not have to be physically present to “attend” a meeting.
You are not just rude but wrong to suggest that we are fuddy duddies. We use the latest technologies where and when appropriate. But we also serve the reasonable percentage of our members without emails.
Finally I would like to draw your attention to our code of conduct which under the heading misconduct lists:
a) behaviours that are discriminatory or that insult, antagonise or harass other club members
b) abusive language
c) behaviour that damages the reputation of the Marlin Owners Club
b) abusive language
c) behaviour that damages the reputation of the Marlin Owners Club
You might like to consider how your posts relate to these points
You are right to say that the future of the MOC relies on keeping Marlins on the road, and attracting and retaining members. But that is the responsibility of every member of the club not just the committee.
Steve, you make such a positive contribution to these forums over 2,500 posts. I have no doubt that you will reply to this post. I doubt that your reply will be consolatory. But I ask that you live up to your “repeating mantra that the MOC needs to attract new blood, to involve them in the club. If the MOC is not seen as progressive, it will die.”
Many of the points you raise have been discussed ad nauseam. We have explained the reasons why the things you want are not appropriate. Just because the conclusions do not fit with your own agenda does not mean that this and previous committees have not considered them sympathetically.
I too end on a George Bernard Shaw quote:
“Any public committee man who tries to pack the moral cards in the interest of his own notions is guilty of corruption and impertinence.”
I will read with interest any post wishing to contribute to the rewording of the constitution as requested in my original post.
Paul
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