New mot emissions

[cabrioman]

Well the mot test manual has been changed from draft to in force from today and has some interesting changes on the emissions front for Kit Cars.

If a kitcar was first used before august 1998 it is treated differently to a car with first use after 1998.

If its the latter its tested to the emission limit shown on the v5c, if the v5c has no emission limits showing it will be tested to emission standards as of its actual date of first use.

So the way I read it if you had a kit that was first used say 2015, it would have to pass emission limits as of 2015 regardless of engine used, if there is no emission limit value on the v5

The old approach of using an older engine and testing to engine age only appears to now be valid on a vehicle first used before 2002.

It appears pre 1998 kit cars are not affected, they are treated as first used before august 1975 and don’t need emission testing, unless I have read it wrong.

Manual is available here

https://www.mot-testing.service.gov....ml#section_8.2 (Changed to full url, Paul)

And this is the page with both versions of the manual, up to 19th May 2018 and 20th May 2018 on

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/mot-inspection-manual-for-class-3-4-5-and-7-vehicles

John

[Blue Marlin]

Re: New mot emissions

Interesting, does anyone know the difference between first used and first registered. Brum was registered in 2012, was inspected by the DVLA ( I believe ) and given an age related 1970 reg no.
I have a correctly registered V5, a current MOT but NO SVA or IVA.
MOT due next month so fingers crossed

[stevepritch]

Re: New mot emissions

I had a recent MOT and it failed on current standards. However they tested on the standards based on the age of the engine, 1989, it passed.
I will always take the original vehicle info for future MOTs to ensure that the age of the vehicle is fully appreciated.

[cabrioman]

Re: New mot emissions

I had a recent MOT and it failed on current standards. However they tested on the standards based on the age of the engine, 1989, it passed.
I will always take the original vehicle info for future MOTs to ensure that the age of the vehicle is fully appreciated.

Yes that is the best approach. The difference with the new May onwards manual though is that it specifically excludes being able to use the age of the engine get out if it was first used after 2002, so despite the other kit car specific chages of pre 98 verses post 98 first use they have also taken out the older engine exclusion.

It could be a real problem for some very expensive market value cars such as the Hawk 289 Cobra. Many have been built in the last few years and have hulking great 70’s Ford V8’s in them, I think they will struggle if they apply the manual as it is.

Maybe it will get revised when the emission consultation response gets finally published, lets hope it does.

For me my Hunter falls into the pre 98 catorgory but I think I would think long and hard if I were thinking of splashing out big money on a different car such as a Cobra. I nearly bought a Royale Sabre last year that was first put through IVA in 2016 and that had an early 90’s 2.8 Ford V6, it will be interesting to see how it would fair if it was submitted for MOT now.

Maybe we need to all be brushing up on our electronics so we are ready to swap to electric power!!!

John

[milliemarlin]

Re: New mot emissions

I have noticed that my V5 has Emission Limits on the front of the document under 3 Special notes. Previously I had been looking inside the document which is blank. The limits specified is %CO 3.5; HC 0.12. I assume this matches the original pinto.

[milliemarlin]

Re: New mot emissions

Interesting, does anyone know the difference between first used and first registered. Brum was registered in 2012, was inspected by the DVLA ( I believe ) and given an age related 1970 reg no.
I have a correctly registered V5, a current MOT but NO SVA or IVA.
MOT due next month so fingers crossed

I still don’t think I understand what date “first used” means. My V5 has two dates “Date of First Registration”: 1989 and “Date of first registration in the UK”: 2005.

I have taken this from the manual:

8.2 Exhaust emissions
<snip>
Kit cars

Kit cars and amateur built vehicles first used on or after 1 August 1998 must have either Single Vehicle Approval (SVA) or Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA).

You must test kit cars or amateur built vehicles to the limits in the vehicle's registration document (V5c). If the V5c doesn't show any limits, you must test it to the limits based on the date the vehicle was first used.

There seems to be a Gordian knot in the definition. If the “first used date” is 1989 then she does not need a SVA. If the “first used date” is 2005 then she will need to pass 2005 limits even though she could be fitted with a 1989 engine.

This government site used to “Check if a vehicle is taxed and has an MOT”

https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/

Shows:

Date of first registration: April 2005
Year of manufacture: 2005

This also tends to indicate 2005 limits would be required.

This is also taken from the MOT manual:

6 Vehicle ‘first used’ dates – Application of test criteria
Usually you'll be given the vehicle details as part of the registration process. This will usually include the vehicle’s ‘first used’ date. If the ‘first used’ date is known, you should only use defects applicable to the vehicle’s age.
When the ‘first used’ date isn't known or incorrect, you should determine the vehicle’s ‘first used’ date as follows:

a) Its date of manufacture, if the vehicle was originally used without being registered in Great Britain, such as an imported vehicle or ex-HM Forces vehicle.
b) Vehicles having a Q plate registration when presented for MOT are to be treated as follows:
• for emission purposes only, they are to be considered as first used before 1 August 1975
• for all other testing purposes they are to be considered as being first used on 1 January 1971

In any other case, the earlier of either its date of first registration or the date 6 months after it was manufactured, for example, vehicles first used before 1 September 2001 don’t need to have anti-theft device. However, a vehicle first used after that date, but manufactured at least 6 months before that date (before March 2001) would still not need an anti-theft device to be fitted.
You should enter this information onto the MOT testing service so that you can select the appropriate defects.

This indicates Date of First Registration: 1989. Even weirder is that Q plates are tested as mid 1970s cars regardless of engine age. Can this be right?

In your case I think you will have limits on the first page. Take a copy with you to the MOT.
Paul

[b_caswell]

Re: New mot emissions

So what happened to the statement :-
The UK’s specialist vehicle industry is thriving – it creates jobs and gives enjoyment to many, with products exported all over the world. “We are grateful to the over 2000 kit and replica car enthusiasts, manufacturers and suppliers who took part in this consultation. Following their responses, we have decided that there will be no changes to the current MOT–style testing of kit car emissions.”
1 May at 10:07 · Public

Or am I missing something it seems to have got very confusing??

[cabrioman]

Re: New mot emissions

So what happened to the statement :-
The UK’s specialist vehicle industry is thriving – it creates jobs and gives enjoyment to many, with products exported all over the world. “We are grateful to the over 2000 kit and replica car enthusiasts, manufacturers and suppliers who took part in this consultation. Following their responses, we have decided that there will be no changes to the current MOT–style testing of kit car emissions.”
1 May at 10:07 · Public

Or am I missing something it seems to have got very confusing??

Two different things, the quote above was in regard to the changes they proposed for IVA, cars newly presented for testing, but it did not apply to vehicles already registered. The MOT emission changes relate to already registered vehicles presented for MOT.

It has do be said none of it looks very joined up.

[Mike]

Re: New mot emissions

I had a recent MOT and it failed on current standards. However they tested on the standards based on the age of the engine, 1989, it passed.
I will always take the original vehicle info for future MOTs to ensure that the age of the vehicle is fully appreciated.

I had exactly the same experience - I had to remind the tester the emissions are based on the age of the engine ( I have a letter from BMW stating the year of manufacture) and it passed.
Mike

[Blue Marlin]

Re: New mot emissions

I still don’t think I understand what date “first used” means. My V5 has two dates “Date of First Registration”: 1989 and “Date of first registration in the UK”: 2005.

I have taken this from the manual:

8.2 Exhaust emissions
<snip>
Kit cars

Kit cars and amateur built vehicles first used on or after 1 August 1998 must have either Single Vehicle Approval (SVA) or Individual Vehicle Approval (IVA).

You must test kit cars or amateur built vehicles to the limits in the vehicle's registration document (V5c). If the V5c doesn't show any limits, you must test it to the limits based on the date the vehicle was first used.

There seems to be a Gordian knot in the definition. If the “first used date” is 1989 then she does not need a SVA. If the “first used date” is 2005 then she will need to pass 2005 limits even though she could be fitted with a 1989 engine.

This government site used to “Check if a vehicle is taxed and has an MOT”

https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/

Shows:

Date of first registration: April 2005
Year of manufacture: 2005

This also tends to indicate 2005 limits would be required.

This is also taken from the MOT manual:

6 Vehicle ‘first used’ dates – Application of test criteria
Usually you'll be given the vehicle details as part of the registration process. This will usually include the vehicle’s ‘first used’ date. If the ‘first used’ date is known, you should only use defects applicable to the vehicle’s age.
When the ‘first used’ date isn't known or incorrect, you should determine the vehicle’s ‘first used’ date as follows:

a) Its date of manufacture, if the vehicle was originally used without being registered in Great Britain, such as an imported vehicle or ex-HM Forces vehicle.
b) Vehicles having a Q plate registration when presented for MOT are to be treated as follows:
• for emission purposes only, they are to be considered as first used before 1 August 1975
• for all other testing purposes they are to be considered as being first used on 1 January 1971

In any other case, the earlier of either its date of first registration or the date 6 months after it was manufactured, for example, vehicles first used before 1 September 2001 don’t need to have anti-theft device. However, a vehicle first used after that date, but manufactured at least 6 months before that date (before March 2001) would still not need an anti-theft device to be fitted.
You should enter this information onto the MOT testing service so that you can select the appropriate defects.

This indicates Date of First Registration: 1989. Even weirder is that Q plates are tested as mid 1970s cars regardless of engine age. Can this be right?

In your case I think you will have limits on the first page. Take a copy with you to the MOT.
Paul

The plot thickens.

If you use the vehicle checker, above, date of registration is 09/12 with a year of manufacture 1995.
If you use the MOT history check, https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/ , it shows the DATE REGISTERED as 31/12/95.
I guess the MOT guy used the latter as she passed today with no advisories, happy bunny . I have to admit I was rather nervous about the emission thingy.

Derek

[Dane_Rescueman]

Re: New mot emissions

Hi all,
I presented my Berli for MoT yesterday. (1989 Pinto EFi)
The MoT station is under new management with a young owner / tester. He was very thorough but fair. He applied the new rules saying that my (Q reg) car only eeded a smoke test, which it had passed. I asked for an emission test to the engine age limits. He agreed and entered it all on the MoT data base. The results were very good at the lower end of the limit so I was pleased. Even though the car did not have to have this test I use the info to gauge how the engine and EFi are functioning.

All for £40. very good service. The tester understands cars and the MoT regulaions. Full marks to Simon Nolan of the Summercourt MoT centre at St Enoder (Nr Summercourt) Cornwall.

[chris_cussen]

Re: New mot emissions

There is also a thread about this elsewhere, though it goes off in an different direction for a long while... http://www.marlinownersclub.com/foru...d.php?7627-MOT

However my Cabrio was giving a 'G' plate on the basis of having a single donor car, but then has had a Zetec engine swap just to make it more complicated. First garage failed it since the date of registration was 2009 and would not accept any argument to the contary.
However a different garage accepted the arguement that it was originally a 'G' vehicle and should have the emissions test appiled for a G car. The clincher in the argument was then on my V5 Note 3 said
1. WAS REGISTERED AND/OR USED.
My V5 does not list any emission criteria.
You seem to need a tame and unterstanding MOT tester.

[dave_clutterbuck]

Re: New mot emissions

FBHVC has a list of Historic Friendly Testing Stations

[marlin munroe]

Re: New mot emissions

My Cabrio has a 1988 BME E34 M20 B25 ; 2.5 ltr engine, first used 1988

The car was finally built and SVA/IVA registered on 30/10 2008

My V5 C document states;

SVA/IVA cert issued 30/10/2008 . Emission limit- %CO 3.5 ; HC 0.12


Anyone know what this means in terms of exemption/compliance?

My MOT is due before 31 March!!

[andyf]

Re: New mot emissions

The MOT station will test to the values stated on the v5 so %CO 3.5 ; HC 0.12 in your case