Cabrio Type 9 Gearchange

[marlinmick]

Hi All

My recently acquired Cabrio fitted with a 205 Pinto engine and what I assume to be a type 9 Ford Sierra gearbox requires just a little bit more than a gentle shove to get it to engage 1st gear, sometimes thinking its in gear until I let the clutch out only to find no forward movement, pressing the clutch in and pushing the gear lever forward with a bit more force it goes in with a graunch (clutch fully depressed) engaging second seems ok but sometimes requires a couple of stabs to get it to engage, third gear seems ok so are forth and reverse. Is this normal or does anyone have any ideas what the problem could be please. If I have to change the gearbox for a recon unit does anyone have any recommendations for this type of gearbox - It could certainly do with a taller first gear.

Regards to all.

Mick.

[philcoyle]

Re: Cabrio Type 9 Gearchange

sounds like you are ready for a new clutch, nothing lasts for ever.

[Ye Ol Ripper]

Re: Cabrio Type 9 Gearchange

Hi Mick

Your clearly not breaking the drive when pressing the clutch . This will be due one of the two reasons:

1) The release bearing may be excessively worn thin or pressing against worn clutch cover fingers(there will be a groove in them ).

2) But the most common issue & the thing to check first is as follows:

At the time the Sierra was introduced & MK3 Escort . Ford introduced a ratchet auto adjustment onto the clutch pedal. it is white in colour and made of plastic. They failed on a regular basis and the replacement part was commonly available in the 80/90's from your local car parts accessory store.

It is the larger diameter plastic part that strips a few teeth off and then there is excessive travel in the pedal, causing your gear change problems.

The earlier system used on the Cortina's MK 1V etc had 2 nuts on the cable near the release arm on the gearbox , where you could quickly take up the slack when the gears began to crunch.

You will need to establish if you have the ratchet system or the manually adjustable cable as iirc it was possible to fit the earlier manually adjustable system retrospectively by swapping out the clutch pedal . Although I never actually did so myself.

In the Sierras and Escorts it was a fiddly job to remove having to be buried down in the foot well, virtually standing on your head trying to remove the locating clip off to slide off the clutch pedal off the shaft.

In a Marlin & without seeing the accessibility personally; it maybe prudent to remove the pedal assembly due to the narrow foot well or as a minimum remove the steering wheel and possibly the seat to assist access.

If you have difficulty determining what you have, check at the gearbox clutch release fork arm end first , as no adjustment there means you have the plastic ratchet system.

Count the number of teeth that should be present as it may be possible that the ratchet for other cars e.g Escorts was a different size.

That tip will hopefully mean you won't need to remove the gearbox, to sort your gear change issues . :-)

[andyf]

Re: Cabrio Type 9 Gearchange

I would start with the clutch as "Ye Ol Ripper" suggests.

The gearbox oil can also have a bearing on gear engagement. It needs to be a synthetic 75-90 weight oil rather than the 80 we used to use in the 4 speed boxes. If it is oil it will be more pronounced when it is cold and gets easier as it warms up.

Other than that it would be the syncro rings on 1st and 2nd gears that are shot.

BGH Geartech are regarded as the best source of recon type 9s but they are expensive. I did mine with the help of an experienced mechanic and it was not easy as you need some specialist tools to pull the 5th gear off the lay shaft.

[dogoncrazy]

Re: Cabrio Type 9 Gearchange

Hi Mick
I would follow the advice earlier by 'ye old ripper' and check the auto adjust mechanism if that is what is fitted. There are also several versions giving different amounts of pull for the same travel of pedal . This is achieved by the radius of the quadrant . Not sure which is which but they were of different colours denoting the ratio so something like white was 45mm, yellow 50mm and black 55mm but don't take that as gospel, I may have them the wrong way round.
By the way , did another 200miles approx today to Huntingdon and back!

[greyV8pete]

Re: Cabrio Type 9 Gearchange

When I had my old Mk2 Sierra 2.0GL I had a similar problem. It was actually caused by a failure of the clothes peg type spring that presses on the pawl. I only replaced the toothed quadrant because I had already bought one! I think I have the old undamaged yellow one somewhere. Let me know if you need one and I will have a look for it. Peter.

[ggrum]

Re: Cabrio Type 9 Gearchange

I also took the Cabrio to Huntingdon today. What a coincidence ha ha! I recently changed the clutch cable on my 2L DOHC with MT75 box because I had to fully depress the clutch pedal to engage 1st gear. The quadrant seemed to be in good order but the adjustment was at max so I assumed cable stretch. However the new cable was exactly the same length as the old one and so no real improvement was achieved. I just live with it at the moment but it would interesting to hear of other's experiences. Sorry, can't remember the colour or size of the quadrant.

[marlinmick]

Re: Cabrio Type 9 Gearchange

Hi All

Thank you all for your responses the wealth of information and support from you guys is amazing. Yes I do have the quadrant type of adjustment I noticed it the other day when I had my head under the dash testing the fuel gauge circuit (looks like fuel level sender is not working). So I'll take a closer look at it this weekend it means taking out the seat and steering wheel again but I'm used to it now. I have found in my stock of spares a NOS Clutch Cable for a Mk 111 Cortina left over from when I built a NCF Diamond I will see if this can be made to fit I have the equipment to make up any parts to assist making it fit. I'll also check the gearbox oil level as well. From what I have read these gearboxes cannot be drained to change the oil so its just a top up if required.
I've done a couple of hundred miles in the Cabrio now and I found its a lovely car to drive still lots of small niggles on my car to sort out but that the joy of kit car ownership, like my MOT Tester said we all buy these old technology cars (kits or modern day classics) and then spend a fortune trying to make them perform and drive like modern mass produced cars.

Alan I called in at yours yesterday but obviously you were out enjoying your Cabrio.

Regards to all.

Mick.

Cabrio Day Out .jpg

[milliemarlin]

Re: Cabrio Type 9 Gearchange

Hi Mick,
There is a little more information about quadrants here:

https://www.marlinownersclub.com/forum/showthread.php?8249-Ford-Clutch-Quadrant-Options

Paul
WTMI - Way Too Much Information