Mot Woes

[chris_cussen]

Well the cabrio has been on the road for nearly 3 years so I submitted it for its first MOT.
It failed on emissions because the tester could not determine which test to apply, so he failed it.
I showed him using the engine number that the engine came from a 2l G reg Sierra, but he would not accept that because the VOSA manual of emission tests manual listed the engine number under "Ford Sierra", and my car was a Marlin.

There was some flowchart in the MOT testers manual that he tried to follow and that lead to a decision box that had a 'Yes' output but no 'No' output, and of course the answer to the question was 'No' so he was stimied there too.

Ha asked to see the log book as that was supposed to have the emissions level in it, but all the data was blank.

I've found a copy if the IVA pass certificate and that showed the emissions as N/A.

He has emailed the technical department at VOSA, but does anyone know of a definitive article that defines the testing criteria? I've googled but everything I seem to find is secondhand and considering how pedantic this tester is secondhand heresay would not be acceptable.

Apart from that I got an advisory on a non working indicator repeater.

[stevejgreen]

Re: Mot Woes

I copied the latest MOT Testers manual here.

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/4318326/mot-inspection-manual-pdf-2-9-meg?da=y

[Mike]

Re: Mot Woes

Chris

What year was your donor engine manufactured?

I contacted VOSA about this and was told by Mark Vickers that for IVA the emissions are based on the engine year of manufacture, and that up to August '95 a CAT is not required. However, you must prove the engine year of manufacture with a letter from the manufacturer. BMW have done this for my 325i M50 - engine.

Mark Vickers also advised the MOT is based on the age of the car, but they will use the details stated on the IVA registration. In other words you need to get the emissions for your engine stated on your IVA registration document. I guess for you this now means on to your V5 document. Then you will not get this problem each year.

If you would like to PM me your email I'll forward the 3 pages used in the IVA manual to determine what emississions test should be used. If your engine is pre - July '95 you should get to:
CO2 <=3.5%
HC<=1200ppm
- this is how mine worked out for a BMW engine made in August 93.
Although there appears to be a dead end in the flow chart, it is because it can not happen as he should have started in a different place!

Mike

[chris_cussen]

Re: Mot Woes

OK, A little light reading for later, thanks for your replies.

The the fist 2 characters engine number on a Ford engine defines the year/month of manufacture. Its a matter of getting the IVA tester to agree to use this. Burton Power have a lookup of age vs letter code.

Engine code works out to be October 1990

[Mike]

Re: Mot Woes

Chris

I think you will need a letter from Ford to prove the age of the engine. It should be reasonably straight forward to obtain.
BMW sent me one for mine, as I could show them the engine number, and the donor car registration.

Mike

[stevejgreen]

Re: Mot Woes

If this situation is indicative of the problems that can arise from a first MOT, it's a worrying indication of the problems that may occur for those of us who are driving modified Roadsters and Berlinettas etc. If a MOT inspector questions the age of the Zetec engine or any other significant part of a car that can no longer be identified with any degree of certainty will there be a several cars that despite good history will be deemed unroadworthy.
My Roadster 1.8 engine is certainly non-standard, with a change of head, cams, valves etc etc. The engine number is no longer representative of its original condition.
How will this effect the Zetec powered cars with motorcycle or non standard carbs or custom injection/ignition systems etc.

The regulations are being tightened step by step. One day Amateur Built cars will be a thing of the past as they are forced off the road.

[CosworthCabrioLee]

Re: Mot Woes

Steve I completely disagree please try to stop scaring people, a common sense approach needs to be applied to the mot test I have never had a problem with any of my cars and I must do 20+ mot's a year providing you can provide the correct information or prove it then no problem. Poor Chris sounds like he got a job's worth mot man. The mot is a safety Check if his omissions are up slightly who cares it aint going to make a massive difference.

[CABRIOBOB]

Re: Mot Woes

Chris,

If you look back at some old posts re mot as this has been discussed at great lengths and it seems that a lot of mot garages havent got a clue on emmissions testing.

Re: mot
Your MOT man needs to read his mot manual as the exhaust is visual only on a engine of that age. This topic was discussed at great detail on the forum a few months back.

New emmissions MOT tests can be found under "General discussions" (April 2012)

The following types of vehicle will be considered as first used before 1 August 1975
All kit-cars and amateur built vehicles first used before 1 August 1998.
(Visual Test):

Just found this under Caterham Cars = the vehicle concerned should be considered as 'amateur built' and as such
should receive a visual smoke test only. In the emmissions testing manual.

[christopher.bogue2011]

Re: Mot Woes

My Roadster has been through two MOT's at two different testing stations since it's rebuild and on both occasions there was only a visual check of the exhaust emissions. Sounds like this Tester needs to read his manuals to understand the requirements.
(Fiat 2.0L Twin Cam)
Chris

[chris_cussen]

Re: Mot Woes

I've just had a look at the flow chart in General Discussions. It doesn't help as the car was 'built' in 2009 (i.e. date of registration) although it is on a 'G' plate. Going by box in the bottom right of the picture it states that "Vechicles used on or after 1 Aug 1998 'S' reg are required to obtain SVA and should be tested to the limits stated on the logbook/registration certificate"
Great - except
A) There are no emissions entries whatsoever in my logbook.
B) The statement is a bit out of date as SVA was repalced by IVA in April 2009

[Mike]

Re: Mot Woes

I've just had a look at the flow chart in General Discussions. It doesn't help as the car was 'built' in 2009 (i.e. date of registration) although it is on a 'G' plate. Going by box in the bottom right of the picture it states that "Vechicles used on or after 1 Aug 1998 'S' reg are required to obtain SVA and should be tested to the limits stated on the logbook/registration certificate"
Great - except
A) There are no emissions entries whatsoever in my logbook.
B) The statement is a bit out of date as SVA was repalced by IVA in April 2009

Chris
The point is your car was put through SVA, and those were the rules at the time, and as such they apply now. The emissions test will be on the age of your engine, NOT when your car was put on the road. You should have had the emissions standards entered on to your log book. This is what you need to get put right.
Try ringing Mark Vickers at VOSA, I think he will be able to help you get this sorted out.
Mike

[danny_nelson]

Re: Mot Woes

Chris, Your car is reg 2009 on an age related plate/donor. You need to prove the year of engine,

[chris_cussen]

Re: Mot Woes

You are right Danny, but it was convincing the examiner the test should be related to the age of the engine.
Anyway the MOT tester has contacted me after he talked to VOSA. Emissions test will be for a 1990 non-CAT engine.
So the final re-test will be on Friday.

[danny_nelson]

Re: Mot Woes

Well done, I am glad that you have it sorted.

[milliemarlin]

Re: Mot Woes

Millie passed her SVA in 2005 based on a 1985 F registration Sierra. She has an F reg. I have since replaced the engine with a 2005 2L Zetec. I have had to argue my case with MOT testers who think that because she is “first registered 2005” or because the engine is 2005 that she should meet 2005 emissions. They are wrong! The emissions relate to the age of the car 1985. I guess that this is because it is too difficult to change the tax you pay if you were to fit a less polluting engine. Some kit car owners use Zetec engines with carburettors and no cats.
I now speak to the tester before he starts so he can RTFM before establishing an entrenched position. I understand there is a helpline for the tester to get clarification or was it a victim of the cuts?
I am pleased to report Millie passed her MOT a couple of days ago.
Paul