Non-starting problem

[Ye Ol Ripper]

Re: Non-starting problem

On the Pinto Engine , the cams timing mark is iirc at 6 oclock and is within a gap on the pulley that forms a point. That then aligns with a dot in the head. That is assuming you have a standard cam. Modified cams were stamped at the rear end of the camshaft.

The distributor pulley is also driven off thecambelt and it is likely that you are 1 tooth or more off with that. To check, the rotor should be pointing to no1 at tdc with it in its usual position , I guess midway of its swing , but there will be a witness mark at the clamp as to where it was before.

[nightsurfer]

Re: Non-starting problem

On the Pinto Engine , the cams timing mark is iirc at 6 oclock and is within a gap on the pulley that forms a point. That then aligns with a dot in the head. That is assuming you have a standard cam. Modified cams were stamped at the rear end of the camshaft.

The distributor pulley is also driven off thecambelt and it is likely that you are 1 tooth or more off with that. To check, the rotor should be pointing to no1 at tdc with it in its usual position , I guess midway of its swing , but there will be a witness mark at the clamp as to where it was before.

Thanks I'll check that, but the white paint mark I put on before disassembly lined up with everything at TDC, so I'm not sure if it will be the culprit.

[nightsurfer]

Re: Non-starting problem

I'm starting to see the attraction of paying someone to maintain the car !
Tonight I changed the rotor arm back to the old one and started up, the timing was only a tad past the timing marks this time, which was a great improvement on the previous attempt.
In the attached image the timing mark on the engine is just poking out of the centre of the Jubilee clip tail.
I tried moving the camshaft one tooth anticlockwise but it put the TDC mark a way off. So I put it back where it was.
I thought I'd put the bonnet back on and go for a test drive to the end of the road and back.
Just before I went, I decided to change the distributor cap back to the original too, just in case it made further improvement.
Pushed the car back out of the garage (I'm not allowed to start it inside as we have a connecting door to the kitchen)
Turned the key and the starter motor just clicked.
The battery is fully charged and I have checked that the connections on the starter motor are clean and tight, but still just the click.
Engine turns freely with a spanner and the car is not in gear.
It's been turning over really well since I cleaned up the contacts.
So now it's off to trawl the forums and try to find the cause.....


Video still.jpg

[milliemarlin]

Re: Non-starting problem

My guess is a cable to starter motor problem or earth strap.

[nightsurfer]

Re: Non-starting problem

My guess is a cable to starter motor problem or earth strap.

My reply got deleted when I was trying to edit it. I was trying to say:
I'll connect a jump lead from battery to solenoid and another from battery to starter mounting bolt and see if it works.
I assume one of the small wires if positive to solenoid, but what is the other?
Can I assume because it clicks that these two are ok anyway?

[milliemarlin]

Re: Non-starting problem

Assume – nothing! The click is probably a relay. A simple bulb and crocodile clip will let you check if the ignition key is asking the starter motor to act. In my experience it is best to plod through systematically.
Paul

[nightsurfer]

Re: Non-starting problem

Assume – nothing! The click is probably a relay. A simple bulb and crocodile clip will let you check if the ignition key is asking the starter motor to act. In my experience it is best to plod through systematically.
Paul

Good idea, but which of the two smaller wires do I check (or is it both)?

[greyV8pete]

Re: Non-starting problem

The starter solenoid is the relay! If you hear a click there is a connection through the starter button / key to energise the solenoid, but there is not enough (heavy) current flowing to spin the starter. That points to a high resistance in one of the heavy duty cables. So check ALL the earth connections. So first check the battery Earth clamp on the battery is clean and tight. Then check the battery Earth cable to the chassis is making a good contact. If necessary remove it, scrape any rust or corrosion back to bare metal and replace. Then check the + battery clamp is tight and check that there is a good connection at the big terminal on the solenoid. Then check there is a good connection from the solenoid to the starter. If all that fails fit a new solenoid. And if that doesn’t fix the problem look to the starter motor. Check the commutator is clean and the brushes are not worn. Alternatively, if it is very old, treat your marlin to a late Xmas present and fit a new one! Peter.

[nightsurfer]

Re: Non-starting problem

The starter solenoid is the relay! If you hear a click there is a connection through the starter button / key to energise the solenoid, but there is not enough (heavy) current flowing to spin the starter. That points to a high resistance in one of the heavy duty cables. So check ALL the earth connections. So first check the battery Earth clamp on the battery is clean and tight. Then check the battery Earth cable to the chassis is making a good contact. If necessary remove it, scrape any rust or corrosion back to bare metal and replace. Then check the + battery clamp is tight and check that there is a good connection at the big terminal on the solenoid. Then check there is a good connection from the solenoid to the starter. If all that fails fit a new solenoid. And if that doesn’t fix the problem look to the starter motor. Check the commutator is clean and the brushes are not worn. Alternatively, if it is very old, treat your marlin to a late Xmas present and fit a new one! Peter.

Yes, it was definitely the solenoid clicking. I took the starter motor off last night, so having shecked the red cables were nowhere they could cause mischief, i connected up the battery and turned the key. Nothing.
All the cables were cleaned up when I had the slow turning issue a couple of weeks back and I have checked that I had not left a nut loose.
I even used jump leads alongside the cables and tapped with a hammer, but the motor didn't turn.
Your final suggestion looks like the one I will be going for Peter. Then I might see about getting the original refurbished and put it on the shelf for the future.

[nightsurfer]

Re: Non-starting problem

I've had a trawl online and am thinking of getting this uprated starter

SM4.jpg

Has anyone fitted one of these, and if so would you recommend it?

Also this has two spade terminals, is the 15a marked like on the Lucas?

[milliemarlin]

Re: Non-starting problem

The starter solenoid is the relay! ....

True, I remembered the circuit incorrectly.

I have found that companies supplying starter motors and alternators are car enthusiast and very happy to make recommendations for kit cars. It makes a change from the more mundane replacements. So I always ask them for their recommendation.
Paul

[nightsurfer]

Re: Non-starting problem

True, I remembered the circuit incorrectly.

I have found that companies supplying starter motors and alternators are car enthusiast and very happy to make recommendations for kit cars. It makes a change from the more mundane replacements. So I always ask them for their recommendation.
Paul

Thanks Paul,
I contacted the sellers of a few starter motors and Jim from RotatingMachines gave the most useful information, including the fact that the 15a spade connection is held on with a nut which can be removed leaving a round terminal.
As I have a round 15a terminal, I have ordered one of these and will let you know how I get on with it.

[nightsurfer]

Re: Non-starting problem

The new starter motor arrived today, a much different beast to the original.
Fitted it this evening and the car started no problem.
Still running with the timing very far advanced though.
Tomorrow evening I will try a drive around the block to see how the engine behaves.
Starter Motors.jpg

[greyV8pete]

Re: Non-starting problem

If the timing really is very far advanced I wouldn’t drive it anywhere until that’s sorted properly. Peter.

[nightsurfer]

Re: Non-starting problem

I'm finally getting somewhere with the timing issue:
This evening I have spent my time fidling with the idle mixture, distributor position and idle speed and have managed to get the timing back to where it should be.
Just when I thought I had it right, I discovered that the engine went "clunk" and stopped imediately when the ignition was turned off.
A bit of advance on the distributor seems to have fixed that.
I probably won't get chance top road test until the weekend, but I'm feeling a lot more positive than I have for a couple of weeks.