Mark II – Engine woes

[milliemarlin]

Help, I am going crazy trying to get my engine going.
I have connected everything up. There is a good spark. The fuel pump runs. There is petrol in the fuel rail. I have rigged up a light to an injector plug and can see that flash. But I don’t seem to get any fuel in the cylinder.
Has anybody come across this before?
My best guess is that the fuel pressure regulator is not holding sufficient pressure. I can’t find any replacements for less than about £120 and I am reluctant to fork out that much if it’s not absolutely necessary.
The engine is a Ford Granada 2.9 V6 with the Ford EEC-IV ECU.
Any suggestions would be gratefully received.
Paul

[philcoyle]

Re: Mark II – Engine woes

gone

[andyf]

Re: Mark II – Engine woes

Has the ECU got a diagnostics socket? It may be too early, but if it has a reader would tell you if any of the sensors are not working.

[philcoyle]

Re: Mark II – Engine woes

I doubt very much if there are any garages around that have the old technology or diagnostic equipment to read the faults.
I have a code reader for the EEC IV ECU it is primitive to say the least, it works on a flashing light system and then you translate the number of flashes to a table of problems to find your particular headache. I think Sealy still sell the code reader and I have just checked that Amazon have one left at £36 by Gunson.
The diagnostic socket on early Fords is either a 3 pin (triangular) or a 5 pin( sort of lozenge shaped).

[andyf]

Re: Mark II – Engine woes

IMHO it would be worth the money if it saved money on parts ypu don't need

[milliemarlin]

Re: Mark II – Engine woes

Hi Phil and Andy,
Some good suggestions there.
There is a valve, like a car tyre valve, on the fuel rail. I have pushed that in and petrol did squirt out but not with the vigour I was expecting. Which as you say is a pointer to there not being enough pressure.
I have just come back from Stoneleigh with a fuel pressure gauge and ‘T’ connector for £36. I will connect that up as soon as possible to confirm the diagnosis.
The fuel pump and filter are new. The fuel tank is a jam jar. The Fuel level drops when the pump runs but returns mostly through the return pipe.
The regulator is original and is currently the prime suspect. Does anybody have a tame supplier?
So far the only one I have found is from Burton Power which is really aimed at the racing fraternity. It costs £103.

http://www.burtonpower.com/p-b-valve-sierra-2-9-4x4-horiz-bolts-fsevk38418h.html

I think the ECU is happy because it is energising the injectors and giving a spark.
Thanks guys,
Paul

[philcoyle]

Re: Mark II – Engine woes

You could try .

[milliemarlin]

Re: Mark II – Engine woes

Bang goes the theory! Double Doh!
The pressure gauge shoots up to 43 psi (3 bar). When the pump switches off the pressure drops immediately to about 40 psi then over the course of several minutes to about 10 psi.
I had convinced myself insufficient pressure was the problem so I am very disappointed in this result. On the up side at least I don’t have to buy a regulator.
What I don’t understand is if the injectors are receiving a pulse why can’t I smell fuel in the exhaust or on the spark plugs. They can’t all be duff can they? I do not know when the engine last ran. Certainly it is more than 10 years. Do injectors degrade or corrode shut?
I accept that the timing could be way out. Does the piston have to be on the compression stroke for the injector to work?
Paul
Photos of the gauge and installation.

[philcoyle]

Re: Mark II – Engine woes

Is the

[andyf]

Re: Mark II – Engine woes

Can't you take an injector out to see if it produces a jet of fuel? I'm sure I remember seeing Ed China do it Wheeler Dealers!

[stevejgreen]

Re: Mark II – Engine woes

Can't you take an injector out to see if it produces a jet of fuel? I'm sure I remember seeing Ed China do it Wheeler Dealers!

That would be my guess. You say the filter was changed, was it virtually blocked? When did the engine last run?

[milliemarlin]

Re: Mark II – Engine woes

Gosh lots of good suggestions.
I don’t know much about the engine. I bought the kit from somebody who was unable to finish it. Most components are from an ‘85 Granada. The engine was bought separately and I was told it was a much better engine than the original. It all seems to be good but I really want to hear it run. It certainly has not run for over 10 years. Ford confirmed that it was first fitted to a car in January 1989. The ECU is a Ford EEC-IV.
The distributor was loosely fitted to the engine. I tried refitting it as described in the manual. I tried to see if the gears could be incorrectly meshed but it is obvious if it’s wrong. The Haynes manual has dire warnings about disturbing the dizzy. They state that if it is changed a ford dealer must use a Self Test Automatic Readout (STAR) tester to set it up. I have also read that you can remove the throttle pot connector to create an error condition (code 60) putting the ignition into a flat fixed timing mode (the SPOUT signal is removed). The base timing can then be set to 12 degrees BTDC. But the engine must be running first.
I removed the plugs and rigged up a pressure gauge to cylinder 1. I hand cranked to find the compression stroke. This confirmed that the rotor arm was pointing to plug lead 1. You are right about the dizzy it has the ignition module attached. There is an inverted cup with 6 tabs. The tab adjacent to the detector when cylinder 1 is at TDC is half the size of the rest. I presume the ECU uses this signal for all timing.
I replaced the plugs and leads and used a strobe to set the timing. It is not clear from Haynes what this should be. With everything connected using the starter motor I set the timing to various positions from 0 to 15 BTDC. No signs of life whatsoever!
Thanks for the warning about deaths. Overheating is not going to be a problem for a while.
I’m not quite sure about your fuel rail connection question but I hope the picture answers it. Incidentally I found the same fuel regulator number as you but the unit itself has the number 0280 160 268. The gauge thread did not fit the adapter very well and had a small leak. I have fixed that and the pressure is still 30 psi after 2 hours.
Andy; the fuel rail is common to all the injectors in this set up and you can’t run them separately. In fact it is pretty much impossible to do anything to them. I have managed to take the connector of the injector to cylinder 3 and used a bulb to confirm that the ECU is sending a pulse to it. I could not check the timing.
As Phil says I should get a bang as I have a spark and the ECU is powering the injectors. But I can’t smell fuel and the plugs aren’t wet. What is my next step?
Why on earth did I start this darned project!
Paul
Based on the Isle of Wight.

[milliemarlin]

Re: Mark II – Engine woes

I thought you might like to see a picture of the fuel tank.

[andyf]

Re: Mark II – Engine woes

it'll be worth it once you get it going.

[philcoyle]

Re: Mark II – Engine woes

I woke